[MPWG] ginseng in the news

Tue Sep 10 19:32:11 CDT 2013

Dr. Ed Lui from the University in London Ontario has looked at genetics 
in cultivated vs wild ginseng. 

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On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 12:21:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00), MoonBranch Botanicals  wrote:

        I mentioned the following the other day to a few list-serve 
members with no response. So, in light of Bob's concerns, I'll put it 
out there for broader circulation. 

I do know of at least one such effort to establish a germplasm 
collection for seed production of American ginseng a little over 10 
years ago. As far as I know, the USFS-NC under the direction of USFS 
Botanist Gary Kauffman (I believe) had arranged for a "seed orchard" to 
be established on private property in a "secure location" somewhere in 
Cherokee County, NC. I was made aware of this through personal 
communications at the time with both Mr. Kauffman and the land owner. 

Any information regarding the status of that endeavor would most 
certainly be useful here. There must certainly be someone on this list 
besides myself that knows of that effort. 

I was directly involved with a much smaller (I'm guessing) but similar 
effort back in the day while directing Yellow Creek Botanical 
Institute. We experienced heavy losses regarding American ginseng that 
had been established at a protected site by what appeared to be 
predation by voles. As we have few deer here to speak of, voles are our 
primary mammalian problem with many species. Chamaelirium luteum is 
another vole favorite as they have decimated much of what I have 
planted. I would gladly trade the voles for a few "poachers" any day. 
Deer, I'm not so sure, but reintroduced elk are on their way.... we'll 
see. 

Really and truly, this entire issue, and all of our concerns expressed 
to date boils down to our frustrations in attempting to manage that 
which is largely "unmanageable". I think that's just the way it is in 
both life and horticulture, whether we like it or not. A study in what 
happens when a part tries to control the whole....... 

       -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Layton Beyfuss
Sent: Sep 10, 2013 9:52 AM
To: "Marla S. McIntosh" , "shsa at sasktel.net" , Susan , Jeanine Davis , 
MoonBranch Botanicals
Cc: mpwg
Subject: RE: [MPWG] ginseng in the news

  So everybody agrees that we need to develop local seed banks. How, do 
you propose to do that when state regulations require replanting of the 
seed in the "immediate proximity" or within "50 feet" as is the law in 
KY, using "no tool other than a finger" NC regulations state within 
"100 feet" of the harvested plant, Ohio law requires that the seed be 
planted "at the place where the plant is collected".  TN requires 
replanting berries "in the immediate proximity" NY has a 50 foot rule 
also as perhaps other states do as well. NC, KY, TN and KY produce 
most of the wild ginseng that is harvested each year. The only way it 
will be possible to develop any significant "local seed banks" in these 
states would be to allow seed to be taken from the harvest site and 
replanted in a secure location.  Diggers have always replanted seed 
on site to allow populations to rebound but this will never establish 
local seed banks. How do you propose protecting those plants that 
constitute "local seed banks" on the private property where the roots 
were dug? In order to do what everyone seems to agree needs to be 
done, you would have to change many state regulations. Good luck with 
that! Have any if you ever actually tried to get a state to change its 
regulations? I have, and if the rule change requires new legislation, 
passed by state legislatures, the process is extraordinarily difficult. 
What language would the new regulations have? Ask the people in PA and 
VT how easy it is to change an existing  regulation.  
  So, maybe the people who work within public forestland will 
somehow decide to drop whatever it is they are already doing to change 
regulations so that they would be allowed them to develop their own 
"local seed banks"  on public land. How secure would those local seed 
banks be? Considering the current state of poaching on public land, I 
doubt if these local seed banks would be any more secure, than the 
populations within the park that are already being decimated.  
  Sometimes I wonder if the people who propose the regulations have any 
idea whatsoever of what is required to grow ginseng. It sounds so easy 
to "develop local seed banks". All that is required is to collect 
local seed and grow it somewhere safe. The problem is that ginseng does 
not grow just "anywhere"! If it was easy to grow in any "secure" 
location, this whole issue would be moot. When ginseng is grown at 
any density that would allow for reasonable seed production, diseases 
will occur. The diseases that affect ginseng are not the result of the 
introduction of cultivated seed into wild populations. These diseases 
occur in wild populations as well, as has been well documented by 
pathologists from Cornell and elsewhere back in the early 1900's. 
 When ginseng is moved and transplanted elsewhere from its local 
environment it loses much of its resistance to disease. Virtually 
everybody who has tried to grow ginseng in any significant quantity is 
well aware of this. Many seed sellers and growers such as myself, 
would love to be able to sell "local" seed. We have all 
transplanted wild rootlets onto our own secure property only to find 
out in a few seasons that diseases break out. So we spray and we spray 
and we spray, and in a few generations what we have is "cultivated" 
ginseng that is as dependent on the chemicals as the cultivated seed we 
buy from Canada and Wisconsin.  Artificial selection of plants 
protected by fungicides will soon render wild populations cultivated. 
So what are we preserving?
  Once again, well intentioned, but not well thought out ideas 
and regulations, may do more harm than good. 
  As for maintaining the genetic integrity of any given population, one 
needs to think about how that population became genetically unique in 
the first place. 85% of the forestland in the Northeast was cut down in 
the early 1900's. As the forest has returned, so has ginseng in areas 
that are ecologically suitable for it to grow. Most of the ginseng that 
is growing in the East now, is descended from cultivated seed 
produced by the more than 5,000 wooden lathe shade gardens in NY in 
1910 as well as similar cultivated sites in Ohio, PA, MO, WI, VT and 
elsewhere. That is a simple fact, as anyone who has bothered to study 
the history of ginseng should be aware of. 
  Of course isolated populations will tend to become genetically 
distinct and locally adapted as Marla and others have noted, Wansang 
Lim, a Cornell graduate student, noted such genetic distinctions even 
within NY state. The closer the populations were geographically, the 
more they looked like each other genetically. The bottom line is that 
specific environments will determine whether or not ginseng will grow 
and naturalize in any given location. When cultivated seed from 
Ontario or Wisconsin is planted in a suitable environment, it may or 
may not naturalize. If it does naturalize, then the ginseng which 
results from that naturalization is wild ginseng. 
  For 30 years the regulators at USF and W have strongly discouraged 
the planting of cultivated seed in forestland due to concerns about 
disease introduction as well as outbreeding depression. Despite the 
fact that this practice has been widespread for more than 100 years, 
has there ever been any documented cases of this actually occurring? 
 Has anyone ever actually seen a wild population decline or die due to 
outbreeding depression or introduced disease? If so, I would like see 
the evidence. 
  Instead of wasting time, effort and money trying to establish local 
seed banks, authorities should encourage, not discourage, the mass 
plantings of ginseng seed on private property. Only when this "wild 
simulated ginseng" is being produced in sufficient quantity to reduce 
prices significantly, will the remaining truly wild populations in the 
Parks and Public lands be secure and preserved. 

-------------------------
From: Marla S. McIntosh [mmcintos at umd.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 12:05 AM
To: shsa at sasktel.net; Susan; Jeanine Davis; MoonBranch Botanicals; 
Robert Layton Beyfuss
Cc: mpwg
Subject: RE: [MPWG] ginseng in the news

     All,
  As a scientist who cares very much about ginseng, I DO want to speak up. 

  FYI, Susan and I have been working together to try to obtain funding 
to enlist interested parties to develop seed banks containing plants to 
conserve the genetic diversity and the regional genetic integrity of 
wild ginseng populations.  As per Susan’s letter to request support 
of the federal government, plants in the seed bank would serve as seed 
sources for restoration of local populations with locally derived 
seed.  The attached paper by Schlag and McIntosh (2012) (this is not 
the paper on the UpS website) demonstrates that DNA markers can be used 
to identify the region of origin of ginseng plants. In fact, we were 
able to identify plants in a wild population that were almost certainly 
grown from non-local seed.  In the paper’s conclusion, we 
recommended creating regional seed banks and suggested an approach to 
create the seed banks. 

  The e-mails about the unintended consequences of banning wild harvest 
are VERY timely.  Maryland, DNR has recently banned wild ginseng 
harvest from state lands.  Next week, I will be participating in a 
teleconference regarding this ban and will send Connie and Bob’s 
e-mails to become a point for discussion. 

  Dr. Marla S. McIntosh
  Professor of Plant Sciences
  6117 Plant Science Building
  University of Maryland
  College Park, Maryland 20742
  mmcintos at umd.edu
    From: MPWG [mailto:mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] On 
Behalf Of Connie Kehler
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 9:44 AM
To: Susan; Jeanine Davis; MoonBranch Botanicals; Robert Layton Beyfuss
Cc: mpwg
Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng in the news

  Thanks Robert
  The only recourse we would have had in Ontario - was to have had the 
wild simulated growers on a program like our GACPs.. This along with 
your help would have proven that they were legit.  And OMNR was 
looking at that as an option but hindsight - sigh. 
  You are dead on - on the effect of the ban... There are good people 
out there that have been put in an impossible situation.  We need to 
learn from this. 
  Connie

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On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 14:38:52 +0000, Robert Layton Beyfuss  wrote:

          Dear Connie
  Thank you for posting. This is a classic example of what harm can 
occur when good intentions are not thought out. When Ontario abruptly 
decided to ban all ginseng harvest, I was immediately contacted by a 
number of woodland growers whom I had worked with for years, either 
consulting or selling seed. They immediately found themselves unable to 
sell their roots. I wrote letters telling the authorities that these 
folks were bona fide growers and could prove they had purchased seed 
and had grown their woodland ginseng. Indeed I had visited some of 
these growers and had inspected their beds. I was told that since wild 
simulated and truly wild ginseng were visually indistinguishable, what 
was to stop the growers from secretly buying truly wild ginseng and 
mixing it with their wild simulated?
  The intention of the ban was to protect wild ginseng, but in reality, 
the exact opposite occurred. The black market and the unscrupulous 
poachers who support it continued to dig and sell the wild roots. As 
everyone knows,  all the regulations regarding wild ginseng harvest 
are impossible to enforce and our border is easy to cross. The growers 
mostly gave up trying to grow it, since they had no legal market and 
the status of wild ginseng in Ontario went from scarce to extinct in 
many of its historical locations. Ginseng is far worse off in Ontario 
as a result of this well intentioned, but poorly thought out 
regulation. It is astonishing to me that regulators seem to think 
that by passing a ban, that a ban will actually occur. The only result 
was to create many new "criminals" who previously were honest people. 
When people are faced with a regulation that makes no sense and cannot 
be enforced, it only serves to breed contempt for all regulations. Here 
in NY we have had buyers openly advertising in local newspapers that 
they are buying wild ginseng up to a month before the season opens . A 
simple perusal of Ebay shows diggers offering freshly dug, wild NY 
ginseng 3 weeks before the season opens. Numerous reports of this 
misbehavior to both state in federal authorities by at least a dozen 
individuals, whom I know personally, has had no effect. No one has 
been prosecuted.   

-------------------------

   From: MPWG [mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] on behalf of 
Connie Kehler [shsa at sasktel.net]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:03 AM
To: Susan; Jeanine Davis; MoonBranch Botanicals
Cc: mpwg
Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng in the news
   On the issue of overharvesting of wild ginseng. 

  We in Canada have had an over reaction in Ontario.  Many and in my 
humble opinion most of the wild ginseng in Ontario and much of Quebec 
has been planted by traditional pickers - not actual wild ginseng.  
There is also growers that plant ginseng in the wild and then harvest 
their own root that they have planted up to 10 years later. 

  The issue is can they prove it is theirs not true wild ginseng.  In 
Quebec wild ginseng growers have documented their plantings and 
informed the authorities so they can prove ownership. Ontario was not 
so organized and thus when the Ontario ministry of natural resourses 
decided to without consultation make harvesting etc of ginseng 
illegal  - both field planted ginseng and forest planted ginseng 
became illegal. 

  Because Ontario field ginseng growers have an organization  - they 
were able to get an exempt.  Wild planted ginseng growers were not so 
lucky. 
  We have and are working with both growers and governments to get 
practices in place to ensure that if they plant ginseng in the wild 
they can still harvest their own roots. 
  We have worked with CITES in Canada on ensuring that decisons about 
endangered plants are based in fact.  Not all wildcrafters rape and 
pilage.  Many are generational pickers that care for the the plants so 
their grandchildren still have the resource.  Unfortunately they often 
get clumped in with those who do not take care. 

  Often the overharvest of plant are spurged by some overstated 
overenthusiastic study that takes the highest price of the plant and 
multiply that with the largest volumes to make it look like a fortune 
would be made by simply wandering into the wild and picking plants for 
free. 

  It is important to protect the plants and ensure they are not 
endangered but we need to do so with thought ...... the facts are 
important and we must ensure that this is the basis we work from - on 
all sides. 

  Connie Kehler

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On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 00:23:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00), MoonBranch Botanicals  wrote:

         And be careful.... 
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/03/11-2

  -----Original Message-----
From: Susan
Sent: Sep 8, 2013 5:11 PM
To: Jeanine Davis
Cc: mpwg
Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng in the news
   Yes the time is now to speak up. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 8, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Jeanine Davis  wrote:

         Oh Randi, how dreadful...and now they want to frack in NC, 
too. This all makes me so angry. I do think it is time for more of us 
scientists to speak up. 
  Jeanine
  Jeanine Davis, Associate Professor & Extension Specialist
Dept. of Horticultural Science, NC State University
website: ncherb.org
Sent from my Droid
   On Sep 8, 2013 3:19 PM, "Randi Pokladnik"  wrote:

    Hi folks!

   I did my dissertation on poaching in 2008 and it is an issue in 
Ohio. I am worried now because we have out of state people swarming the 
area fracking! If the frack pads themselves and out of state vehicles 
(carrying invasives back and forth) are not bad enough, we have 
invasive people so to speak, crossing properties without any thought to 
privacy issues. We had one lady find dynamite charges set up on her 
land in Belmont county Ohio... she was going to build a house and took 
a walk around, the company claims it was all a big mistake but beware, 
I see fracking trucks withdrawing water illegally from hidden areas as 
well as the local MWCD lakes. This is so ridiculous! And then the earth 
quakes as well as spent frack fluid being poured out in wooded regions. 
   The medicinals seem to be off the radar as far as ODNR is concerned 
when it comes to getting out that natural gas. 
   Randi Pokladnik

        -----Original Message-----
From: MPWG [mailto:mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] On Behalf 
Of Jeannie Dunn
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 9:05 AM
To: Colin Donohue
Cc: mpwg
Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng in the news
  Colin and Jeanine,

   Thanks for all you have just put out there. Agreed. 
   I really believe WNC residential and commercial development and 
periodic forest service/DOT maintenance probably do more damage to 
annihilate our herbal medicines in the area, more than poachers ever 
will. 
   I also think that we will still have ginseng in 10-20 years because 
the old-timers and their generations who harvest know how to 
proliferate the species as they harvest, scattering seeds and spreading 
roots. 
   It will be "wild cultivated" ginseng but it will still be considered 
wild. I believe Robert Eidus is trying to bring attention to the 
industry and he has a right to his opinion. I hope he's wrong and we 
can sustain our wild ginseng but if more people are moving into western 
NC and the developments sprawl outwards, we may not have much of a 
forest to grow it!

   Jeannie Dunn
    Red Moon Herbs
   828-301-3010

    On Sep 5, 2013, at 8:28 PM, Colin Donohue wrote:

    Absolutely. 

That would be great. I regret I'm not in the role I once was, but this 
issue is still dear to my heart. 

A meeting of the minds, and forging of common strategies and efforts 
could be a great thing in both stewarding 'sang in the wild and 
supporting lifeways of the responsible ginseng stewards and harvesters 
out there. 

C

On 9/5/2013 8:23 PM, Jeanine Davis wrote:

        On an open forum all I am willing to say is that I am not 
amused and this story could have been more accurate and hopeful. We do 
need to brainstorm on strategies to reduce poaching to conserve wild 
populations and encourage more wild simulated production.  I have some 
ideas, that are built on consumer demand and pressure. 
  Jeanine
  Jeanine Davis, Associate Professor & Extension Specialist
Dept. of Horticultural Science, NC State University
website: ncherb.org
Sent from my Droid
   On Sep 5, 2013 7:46 PM, "Michael McGuffin"  wrote:

    Hello Colin,
  I could not agree with you more that the information presented by 
Robert Eidus was unfortunate, at best. But Susan Leopold was exactly 
correct in calling attention to the very limited resources that are 
applied to plant conservation. This was an important message, and an 
appropriate message from United Plant Savers. 

  Michael

   Michael McGuffin
  President
  American Herbal Products Association | www.ahpa.org
  8630 Fenton Street, Suite 918 | Silver Spring | MD | 20910
  MD Phone: 301.588.1171 x201
  CA Phone: 310.745.8401

  30+ years of working for you!

    From: MPWG [mailto:mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] On 
Behalf Of Colin Donohue
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:02 PM
To: Susan Leopold
Cc: mpwg
Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng in the news

   This is great, other than being wrong. 

I'm amused to see Robert Eidus as the spokesperson for the 
survivability of Ginseng. It will be gone in 10-20 years?   That's 
idiotic. 

I'm sure Mr. Eidus didn't mean what he was cast as saying on the clip, 
but it's still incorrect information. 

I'm very disappointed to see UPS trumpeting this incorrect and 
sensationalized clip. 

Yes, there are issues with ginseng harvest, and I'd be the first to 
shout from the mountaintop that poaching is a real issue that needs 
attention, and that more resources should go into plant conservation. 
But putting incorrect information out to spur public concern is 
disingenuous. 

Colin

On 9/5/2013 5:15 PM, Susan Leopold wrote:

         United Plant Savers has started a change.org letter to bring 
awareness to our members and the public and to show various agencies 
that the public cares and supports ginseng conservation efforts.... 

   Below is a link to the CBS story and to our change.org letter, also 
you can go to the UpS website www.unitedplantsavers.org for links to 
several recent news articles and ginseng recently published research. 

   Please join this campaign: http://chn.ge/15Eon5H

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57601454/ginseng-poaching-threatens-survival-of-plant-species/

      Susan Leopold, PhD
   Executive Director, UpS
   703-667-0208
   susan at unitedplantsavers.org

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