[APWG] ECOSYSTEM RESTORATION Percent distribution and trends of indigenous and non-indigenous plant species Re: Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native project with donations--99.99% natives
Wayne Tyson
landrest at cox.net
Thu Aug 29 11:16:14 CDT 2013
Craig and friends:
Frankly, I don't care how anybody spels; I just follow standard conventions in writing--I make misteaks all the time. And I make tyepos too.
As to "spatial extinction," I'm not sure that it will hold up to academic scrutiny, but I get Dremann's point, and it's one worth making--still, I worry that straying too far into the intellectual weeds could undermine credibility. Ditto, "statistics" like 99.99%. It simply smacks of exaggeration and a level of accuracy that can't be sustained.
I'm concerned most about "iffy" and "over the top" remarks being made in public forums where students and other less-experienced folks might be mislead.
I am also dubious about planting California poppies from containers. First, they are primarily annuals, but they also need to develop their "tap" roots and containers interfere with that. Further, they come easily from seed. Solid fields of California poppies are "unnatural." They are primarily plants that respond to disturbance, and, as grasslands and other perennial plants advance, California poppy populations decline--but this is completely natural. Like other colonizing species, including weeds, California poppies respond well to cultivation--in the absence of suppression by other colonizing species, including weeds. Finally, I do not believe that California poppies alone can do much to resist invasion. But that's not their "job."
WT
PS: In my own practice, I have consciously "used" California poppies as attention-getters, even though their "utility" in ecosystem restoration is limited. They do, however, make excellent gopher food, and gophers labor long and hard at soil-building.
With respect to donations, is plantconservation.org a nonprofit organization? I don't even consider NGO's candidates for donation if they don't practice full transparency, including full financial statements and the salaries of the officer and employee categories as well as the extent of their use of volunteers and charges to students--at minimum.
----- Original Message -----
From: craig at astreet.com
To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org ; craig at astreet.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [APWG] ECOSYSTEM RESTORATION Percent distribution and trends of indigenous and non-indigenous plant species Re: Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native project with donations--99.99% natives
Dear Wayne,
Thanks for your email and the correction with my spelling.
I had a hard time coming up with a new word for this idea of Spatial Extinction, so that we can start a conversation about it. The point is, every square meter that an exotic plant grows, has caused the spatial extinction of the individual native plants that used to grow there.
When you get the awesome privilege to see 99.5% weed-free areas like Mark VandePol's 14 acres, or ever catch a glimpse the 99.99% that I am attempting to achieve, perhaps you can use the Bob Dylan method of running transects--"You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blow" or essentially, you do not see any weeds.
It is like getting into a time machine and going back 300 years into the past.
I have 1,000 poppy plants in place already planted as seedlings last winter, and am growing another 6,000 of various species for next spring.
Next spring when everything is planted and blooming, I invite everyone to come and view and bring your huhu hoops or whatever transect devices you use, and see how close to 99.99% weed-free I got.
Usually when a grassland restoration project has been done in the past in California, people cordon off the area and post signs for everyone to Keep Out! I am doing just the opposite, everyone come and smell the flowers and take home lots of pictures for your family albums, of you and your relatives enjoying the beauty.
If we do not have pictures of the native plants in our family albums, they will never become part of our families. Personally, I am also doing paintings on canvas of the project as it proceeds at http://www.ecoseeds.com/art.html, and done four so far.
I have been recently collecting California wildflower post cards on Ebay, if you search California wild flower post card, and the ones from Kern County that advertised the Arvin Wild Flower Festival from the 1920-1940s are staggering.
On the back of one of those post cards I bought, a note is written by the observer at the time, " All the yellow color are poppies, the blue and lavender are lupin and beside there are 105 other varieties of flowers. I nearly lost my mind over so much beauty all at once."
I guess that could be another way to do a native vegetation transect--If you lose your mind over so much beauty at once, you might be getting getting close to 99.99%?
I am hoping that other readers struggling with annual weeds, like sites elsewhere in California and the Great Basin, might try my killing-the-weeds-using-5X-their-own-straw method, and get the 99% kill rate in 60 days, like I did here in Palo Alto.
And if you think this project is worth supporting, toss me a bone at http://www.gofundme.com/3yiq8s
Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333
=============================================
> Craig et y'all:
>
> Naw, I'd say it was more like 4.4 (actually 4.39956) square feet--if I
> wanted to be ridiculously consistent.
>
> But cover is not an accurate enough measure. Individual plants vary too
> much in their "coverage," so to get really narrow-nosed about it, basal
> area would probably be closer to it--expressed as a ratio of the basal
> area of the entire acre. Otherwise, we would have to generalize, right?
>
> First, I'd want to know what sampling procedure produces the data, and how
> many replications have been done by other researchers over what period of
> time. It's not science if the data come only from one sampling at one
> point in time. Ecosystem dynamics are about trends, not absolutes.
>
> Maybe I'll get a chance to see this miracle one of these days.
>
> I agree with Dremann about the creeping extinction idea, and am proud of
> him for thrusting himself forward in any attempt to flatten the slippery
> slopes of gradual reduction in populations of species, or "spacial [sic]
> extinction," as Dremann terms it--in fact, I am so insanely particular
> that I am concerned about the erosion/decline of intra-specific variation
> that biological and anthropogenic disruptions in ecosystems almost
> certainly must cause. I appreciate his appreciation of the beauty of the
> earth, including the odor of tarweeds. I wish him well, even if I am
> skeptical, even disbelieving of, his 99.99 percent calculations. I hope
> that such extravagant notions don't undermine the areas in which he is
> more credible than incredible. I hope that he hangs in there for a long,
> long time. Craig and me, we're in the same quadrant, if not always in the
> same corner.
>
> WT
>
> PS: I gave a talk (my first in a decade or so) at the Native Seed
> Conference in Santa Fe last April--all about just a few of the major
> mistakes I've made in the several decades I've messed around with seeds
> and ecosystem restoration.
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: craig at astreet.com
> To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org ; craig at ecoseeds.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [APWG] Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native project with
> donations--99.99% natives
>
>
> > What, exactly, does "99.99% weed-infested" mean?
> >
> > What, excatly, does "99.99% weed-free" mean?
> >
> > WT
>
> Dear Wayne,
>
> Glad to hear from you again. 99.99% weed-infested acre of land=If you
> looked at each square foot of that acre, you would only find about 4-5
> square feet still occupied by some native plants.
>
> Conversely, if you measured another acre and determined that it was
> 99.99% weed-free, that means that there was solid local native plant
> cover on the entire acre, except for 4-5 square feet that were still
> occupied by some weeds.
>
> This goes to the heart of my idea of spacial extinction of local native
> plants.
>
> We usually look at the term extinction to mean the death of an entire
> species, like the Passenger pigeon, for example.
>
> But perhaps what we should be more concerned about, is the creeping road
> to extinction, which is what I call spacial extinction, where a local
> native species is extinct on a single square foot for whatever
> reason--weeds, plowing, plopping a building on top of that square foot
> of land, planting a corn field, etc.
>
> In California, spatial extinction is a very serious issue, especially if
> we want to preserve some of our native grassland and wildflower fields
> for the future--considering that the native grasses and wildflower
> fields are already spatially extinct over 99.99% of the lower elevations
> of the State.
>
> What I am trying to do with this 70 acres in Palo Alto, is to see how
> this problem of spatial extinction can be corrected, so that this site
> could possibly become an in situ source of local native genetic material
> for other restoration projects where the natives have become spatially
> extinct.
>
> I have set 99.99% local native cover as a goal, and it is not
> unreasonable after I saw Mark VandePol's 14 acres only 25 miles away,
> with his entire property restored to 99.5% native cover, after starting
> with a huge weed patch similar to the 70 acres here in Palo Alto.
>
> I am looking for donations through GoFundMe to get the bales of native
> grass straw I want to use to kill the weeds this winter. Anyone in the
> area is welcome to visit--the site is only about a mile from the Page
> Mill Road exit from I-280.
>
> And that stretch of I-280 between San Jose and San Francisco is one of
> the most beautiful drives in the country because the valley was
> preserved without any development in the 1920s as one of San Francisco's
> water supply reservoirs.
>
> In spring you pass by the I-280 Redwood City/Edgewood Road exit you see
> serpentine wildflower fields, and if you drive past this time of year,
> open your windows to smell the native white flowered hayfield tarweeds
> in bloom, with their stems and branches emitting their lemony scent.
>
> Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333
>
> ========================================
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
>
From: craig at astreet.com
> > To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:12 PM
> > Subject: [APWG] Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native project with
> > donations
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > 'Phase one of the Poppy Project is completed in Palo Alto, California,
> > with very good results, using the weed straw to kill the annual weed
> > seedlings within 60 days of the seedlings sprouting. It is so very
> nice
> > to be able to kill the weeds with their own straw.
> >
> > The whole 70 acre project is going to be done with donations, and I am
> > trying GoFundMe as one way to fund this weeds-back-to-native
> conversion
> > project,, as you can see at http://www.gofundme.com/3yiq8s.
> >
> > I have been waiting over four decades for the local government
> agencies
> > or public land managers to get the funding together to do a project
> like
> > this in my area, and since I will turn 60 in a few months, decided to
> > see if the public might support the project directly, so we can get
> > something going during my lifetime.
> >
> > As far as I know, this will be only the fourth project in California,
> to
> > take a 100% weed infested grassland ecosystem >10 acres, and try and
> > convert it back to the original local wildflowers and native grasses.
> > You can see photos of the potential of what California used to look
> like
> > 300 years ago, before we got 99.99% weed infested at
> > http://www.ecoseeds.com/wild.html.
> >
> > My project is right next to the parking lot at the Palo Alto
> Arastradero
> > Preserve, so anyone is welcome to come and watch as the project
> > progresses. All the native animals are coming to visit,, a coyote,
> > butterflies, hundreds of bumblebees in spring, two doves, gophers, a
> > rabbit and a couple of lizards, within a few months of establishing
> the
> > natives as a solid 99.99% weed-free stand.
> >
> > Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
> > APWG at lists.plantconservation.org
> > http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
> >
> > Disclaimer
> > Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
> > opinion of the individual posting the message.
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
> > APWG at lists.plantconservation.org
> > http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
> >
> > Disclaimer
> > Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
> > opinion of the individual posting the message.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
> APWG at lists.plantconservation.org
> http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
>
> Disclaimer
> Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
> opinion of the individual posting the message.
> _______________________________________________
> PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
> APWG at lists.plantconservation.org
> http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
>
> Disclaimer
> Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
> opinion of the individual posting the message.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
APWG at lists.plantconservation.org
http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
Disclaimer
Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion of the individual posting the message.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.plantconservation.org/pipermail/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org/attachments/20130829/4641fb09/attachment.html>
More information about the APWG
mailing list