[APWG] ECOSYSTEM RESTORATION Percent distribution and trends of indigenous and non-indigenous plant species Re: Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native project with donations--99.99% natives

[craig at astreet.com]

Dear Wayne and All,
I will reply to your comments, and I hope our
discussions will be helpful to others trying to control annual weeds on
public lands and wild lands situations.
> As to "spatial
extinction," I'm not sure that it will hold up to academic

> scrutiny, but I get Dremann's point, and it's one worth
making--still, I

> worry that straying too far into the intellectual weeds could
undermine

> credibility. Ditto, "statistics" like 99.99%. It simply
smacks of

> exaggeration and a level of accuracy that can't be sustained.

>
Until Shaw got his 74 acres back to 95% native, probably most
of the grassland experts in California would have said that it could not
be done, including my mentor Dr.Ledyard  Stebbins.  
Then,
when I saw Mark's 14 acres a few years ago, at 99.5% native cover, that
was like visiting the promised land, of an almost completely weed-free
ecosystem.  
Mark has set the new challenge-goal for grassland
restoration in California, or maybe nationwide. of 99.5% or better.
 And you want to have a lot of diversity--like 100-200 native
wildflower and grassland species. 
> I am also dubious about
planting California poppies from containers.

> First, they are primarily annuals, but they also need to develop
their

> "tap" roots and containers interfere with that.
I
would have thought that to be true about California poppies, until I
planted out 1,000 seedlings eight months ago, and they all survived.
 In our coastal/bay influenced northern California, they are
fortunately perennials and easy to transplant.
>Further, they
come easily> from seed.
I am using local ecotypes, there is no
seed company with any Arastradero ecotype poppy seeds on the shelf yet.
 Since there were only a dozen poppy plants growing wild   in
the neighborhood, I was only able to harvest a teaspoon of seed, that I
used to grow all the seedlings from.  
The plan is to take seed
I harvest from the planted stand, and patrons-of-the-Poppy-Project
donations willing, take that seed to get commercially reproduced.
 There is a 1:100 turn around in one season, which means if I give a
seed grower one pound of seed, that produced 100 pounds within 12
months.
However the costs are substantial, about $10K per
species.
>Solid fields of California poppies are
"unnatural."
Google "post card arvin wild flower
festival" or "antelope valley california poppy reserve"
where you can still see square miles of solid, pure poppies each spring
that we get normal rainfall.  I am only using the poppies as the
place-savers, to keep the bulk of the weeds out,  immediately after
the weeds have been killed by the mulch.
The poppies are also used
to reverse the spatial extinction problem, and get as many square meters
of ground occupied by ANY local native species, after a 150 year absence.
 
> Finally, I do

> not believe that California poppies alone can do much to resist
invasion.

> But that's not their "job."
Yes, but they are great
colonizers and one of the most resistant wildfowers against the exotic
annual grasses.   They are easy to grow, easy to transplant, and they
look pretty, and the native animals and insects love them.
>

> WT

>

> PS: In my own practice, I have consciously "used"
California poppies as

> attention-getters, even though their "utility" in ecosystem
restoration is

> limited. They do, however, make excellent gopher food, and gophers
labor

> long and hard at soil-building.
And the gophers are loving the
poppy roots right now, along with the doves loving the seeds, and the
bumblebees and butterflies loving the pollen, and the bunny loving the
shelter of the plants.  You do not see evidence of those insects or
animals elsewhere on the rest of the 70 acres--everyone is just clustering
within my little 20 x 40 foot poppy patch. 
The funds raised
through GoFundMe are not through any non-profit, and any donations through
GoFundMe are not tax-deductible.  These funds are to get the native
grass straw I need for mulch for winter, and to  plant out the 6,000
seedlings I have growing right now
Sincerely,  Craig Dremann
(650) 325-7333
======================

>

From: craig at astreet.com

> To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org ; craig at astreet.com

> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:09 PM

> Subject: Re: [APWG] ECOSYSTEM RESTORATION Percent distribution and

> trends of indigenous and non-indigenous plant species Re: Funding
a

> 70-acre weed-back-to-native project with donations--99.99% natives

>

>

> Dear Wayne,

>

> Thanks for your email and the correction with my spelling.

>

> I had a hard time coming up with a new word for this idea of
Spatial

> Extinction, so that we can start a conversation about it. The point
is,

> every square meter that an exotic plant grows, has caused the
spatial

> extinction of the individual native plants that used to grow
there.

>

> When you get the awesome privilege to see 99.5% weed-free areas
like

> Mark VandePol's 14 acres, or ever catch a glimpse the 99.99% that I
am

> attempting to achieve, perhaps you can use the Bob Dylan method of

> running transects--"You don't need a weather man to know which
way the

> wind blow" or essentially, you do not see any weeds.

>

> It is like getting into a time machine and going back 300 years into
the

> past.

>

> I have 1,000 poppy plants in place already planted as seedlings
last

> winter, and am growing another 6,000 of various species for next
spring.

>

> Next spring when everything is planted and blooming, I invite
everyone

> to come and view and bring your huhu hoops or whatever transect
devices

> you use, and see how close to 99.99% weed-free I got.

>

> Usually when a grassland restoration project has been done in the
past

> in California, people cordon off the area and post signs for everyone
to

> Keep Out! I am doing just the opposite, everyone come and smell
the

> flowers and take home lots of pictures for your family albums, of
you

> and your relatives enjoying the beauty.

>

> If we do not have pictures of the native plants in our family
albums,

> they will never become part of our families. Personally, I am also

> doing paintings on canvas of the project as it proceeds at

> http://www.ecoseeds.com/art.html, and done four so far.

>

> I have been recently collecting California wildflower post cards
on

> Ebay, if you search California wild flower post card, and the ones
from

> Kern County that advertised the Arvin Wild Flower Festival from
the

> 1920-1940s are staggering.

>

> On the back of one of those post cards I bought, a note is written
by

> the observer at the time, " All the yellow color are poppies,
the blue

> and lavender are lupin and beside there are 105 other varieties of

> flowers. I nearly lost my mind over so much beauty all at
once."

>

> I guess that could be another way to do a native vegetation
transect--If

> you lose your mind over so much beauty at once, you might be
getting

> getting close to 99.99%?

>

> I am hoping that other readers struggling with annual weeds, like
sites

> elsewhere in California and the Great Basin, might try my

> killing-the-weeds-using-5X-their-own-straw method, and get the 99%
kill

> rate in 60 days, like I did here in Palo Alto.

>

> And if you think this project is worth supporting, toss me a bone
at

> http://www.gofundme.com/3yiq8s

>

> Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333

>

>

>

> =============================================

>

> > Craig et y'all:

> >

> > Naw, I'd say it was more like 4.4 (actually 4.39956) square
feet--if I

> > wanted to be ridiculously consistent.

> >

> > But cover is not an accurate enough measure. Individual plants
vary

> too

> > much in their "coverage," so to get really
narrow-nosed about it,

> basal

> > area would probably be closer to it--expressed as a ratio of the
basal

> > area of the entire acre. Otherwise, we would have to
generalize,

> right?

> >

> > First, I'd want to know what sampling procedure produces the
data, and

> how

> > many replications have been done by other researchers over what
period

> of

> > time. It's not science if the data come only from one sampling
at one

> > point in time. Ecosystem dynamics are about trends, not
absolutes.

> >

> > Maybe I'll get a chance to see this miracle one of these
days.

> >

> > I agree with Dremann about the creeping extinction idea, and am
proud

> of

> > him for thrusting himself forward in any attempt to flatten
the

> slippery

> > slopes of gradual reduction in populations of species, or
"spacial

> [sic]

> > extinction," as Dremann terms it--in fact, I am so insanely
particular

> > that I am concerned about the erosion/decline of
intra-specific

> variation

> > that biological and anthropogenic disruptions in ecosystems
almost

> > certainly must cause. I appreciate his appreciation of the
beauty of

> the

> > earth, including the odor of tarweeds. I wish him well, even if
I am

> > skeptical, even disbelieving of, his 99.99 percent calculations.
I

> hope

> > that such extravagant notions don't undermine the areas in which
he is

> > more credible than incredible. I hope that he hangs in there for
a

> long,

> > long time. Craig and me, we're in the same quadrant, if not
always in

> the

> > same corner.

> >

> > WT

> >

> > PS: I gave a talk (my first in a decade or so) at the Native
Seed

> > Conference in Santa Fe last April--all about just a few of the
major

> > mistakes I've made in the several decades I've messed around
with

> seeds

> > and ecosystem restoration.

> > ----- Original Message -----

> >

>

From: craig at astreet.com

> > To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org ; craig at ecoseeds.com

> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 11:34 AM

> > Subject: Re: [APWG] Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native
project with

> > donations--99.99% natives

> >

> >

> > > What, exactly, does "99.99% weed-infested"
mean?

> > >

> > > What, excatly, does "99.99% weed-free" mean?

> > >

> > > WT

> >

> > Dear Wayne,

> >

> > Glad to hear from you again. 99.99% weed-infested acre of
land=If you

> > looked at each square foot of that acre, you would only find
about 4-5

> > square feet still occupied by some native plants.

> >

> > Conversely, if you measured another acre and determined that it
was

> > 99.99% weed-free, that means that there was solid local native
plant

> > cover on the entire acre, except for 4-5 square feet that were
still

> > occupied by some weeds.

> >

> > This goes to the heart of my idea of spacial extinction of
local

> native

> > plants.

> >

> > We usually look at the term extinction to mean the death of an
entire

> > species, like the Passenger pigeon, for example.

> >

> > But perhaps what we should be more concerned about, is the
creeping

> road

> > to extinction, which is what I call spacial extinction, where a
local

> > native species is extinct on a single square foot for
whatever

> > reason--weeds, plowing, plopping a building on top of that
square foot

> > of land, planting a corn field, etc.

> >

> > In California, spatial extinction is a very serious issue,
especially

> if

> > we want to preserve some of our native grassland and wildflower
fields

> > for the future--considering that the native grasses and
wildflower

> > fields are already spatially extinct over 99.99% of the lower

> elevations

> > of the State.

> >

> > What I am trying to do with this 70 acres in Palo Alto, is to
see how

> > this problem of spatial extinction can be corrected, so that
this site

> > could possibly become an in situ source of local native
genetic

> material

> > for other restoration projects where the natives have become
spatially

> > extinct.

> >

> > I have set 99.99% local native cover as a goal, and it is not

> > unreasonable after I saw Mark VandePol's 14 acres only 25 miles
away,

> > with his entire property restored to 99.5% native cover,
after

> starting

> > with a huge weed patch similar to the 70 acres here in Palo
Alto.

> >

> > I am looking for donations through GoFundMe to get the bales of
native

> > grass straw I want to use to kill the weeds this winter. Anyone
in the

> > area is welcome to visit--the site is only about a mile from the
Page

> > Mill Road exit from I-280.

> >

> > And that stretch of I-280 between San Jose and San Francisco is
one of

> > the most beautiful drives in the country because the valley
was

> > preserved without any development in the 1920s as one of San

> Francisco's

> > water supply reservoirs.

> >

> > In spring you pass by the I-280 Redwood City/Edgewood Road exit
you

> see

> > serpentine wildflower fields, and if you drive past this time of
year,

> > open your windows to smell the native white flowered hayfield
tarweeds

> > in bloom, with their stems and branches emitting their lemony
scent.

> >

> > Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333

> >

> > ========================================

> >

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >

> >

>

From: craig at astreet.com

> > > To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org

> > > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 8:12 PM

> > > Subject: [APWG] Funding a 70-acre weed-back-to-native
project with

> > > donations

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > 'Phase one of the Poppy Project is completed in Palo
Alto,

> California,

> > > with very good results, using the weed straw to kill the
annual weed

> > > seedlings within 60 days of the seedlings sprouting. It is
so very

> > nice

> > > to be able to kill the weeds with their own straw.

> > >

> > > The whole 70 acre project is going to be done with
donations, and I

> am

> > > trying GoFundMe as one way to fund this
weeds-back-to-native

> > conversion

> > > project,, as you can see at
http://www.gofundme.com/3yiq8s.

> > >

> > > I have been waiting over four decades for the local
government

> > agencies

> > > or public land managers to get the funding together to do a
project

> > like

> > > this in my area, and since I will turn 60 in a few months,
decided

> to

> > > see if the public might support the project directly, so we
can get

> > > something going during my lifetime.

> > >

> > > As far as I know, this will be only the fourth project
in

> California,

> > to

> > > take a 100% weed infested grassland ecosystem >10 acres,
and try and

> > > convert it back to the original local wildflowers and
native

> grasses.

> > > You can see photos of the potential of what California used
to look

> > like

> > > 300 years ago, before we got 99.99% weed infested at

> > > http://www.ecoseeds.com/wild.html.

> > >

> > > My project is right next to the parking lot at the Palo
Alto

> > Arastradero

> > > Preserve, so anyone is welcome to come and watch as the
project

> > > progresses. All the native animals are coming to visit,, a
coyote,

> > > butterflies, hundreds of bumblebees in spring, two doves,
gophers, a

> > > rabbit and a couple of lizards, within a few months of
establishing

> > the

> > > natives as a solid 99.99% weed-free stand.

> > >

> > > Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >
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> > >

> > >

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