[PCA] Native Phragmites Data - definitions

[Sylvan Kaufman]

In the case of Phragmites australis, there are several genetic strains.
 Some are native to the United States, but there is a European strain that
arrived here that has spread very rapidly.  It has displaced stands of the
native strains and has established in areas where Phragmites didn't used to
grow.  The genetic strains are all the same species, but  they behave
differently.

I agree that there is a lack of standardized definition of what an invasive
species is, but in most definitions being non-native is part of the
definition.  Defining "native" might be more difficult.  Black locust,
Robinia pseudoacacia, originally had a limited distribution in the
Appalachian mountains, but it was widely spread to other parts of the US
for fencing and other purposes.  So it is a species that is native to the
United States, but not native to certain parts of the US.  Personally I try
to use the term "agressive" when referring to native species that spread
quickly and "invasive" when referring to non-native species that spread
quickly to try and avoid confusion.

Sylvan

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Teal Edelen <Teal.Edelen at nfwf.org> wrote:

>  One of the issues with invasion ecology is the lack of a standardized
> definition of what an “invasive species” is! ****
>
> If the plant was non-native, it would have to be described as such. It is
> possible for a native plant to be “invasive”, as this is speaking to the
> ability or actuality of the plant taking over habitat and creating
> monoculture. So, in short,  soley using the term “invasive” is not
> designating a plant as exotic or otherwise.****
>
> ** **
>
> Hope this helps.****
>
> Teal****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* native-plants-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org [mailto:
> native-plants-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Layton Beyfuss
> *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2012 9:28 AM
> *To:* Katy Cummings; native-plants at lists.plantconservation.org
> *Subject:* Re: [PCA] Native Phragmites Data****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi All****
>
> I am a bit confused and hope you can enlighten me. I thought that the
> basic definition of an invasive plant was that it had to be exotic.  There
> are many native plants that create almost solid monocultures such as common
> goldenrod yet can it be “undesirable” at any density? . Poison ivy can
> overrun entire areas but I have never seen it listed as invasive. ****
>
> Bob   ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* native-plants-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org [mailto:
> native-plants-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] *On Behalf Of *Katy
> Cummings
> *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2012 9:28 PM
> *To:* native-plants at lists.plantconservation.org
> *Subject:* [PCA] Native Phragmites Data****
>
> ** **
>
> Fellow Conservationists-****
>
>  ****
>
> I work for The Nature Conservancy (TNC) in Door County, WI.  My main
> project this summer has been mapping exotic and native stands of Phragmites
> (*Phragmites australis* and *Phragmites australis americanus*) throughout
> TNC properties in Door County.  I have some questions and experiences to
> share with you as our organization tries to learn more about the
> native/exotic Phragmites issue.  ****
>
>  ****
>
> We all know what havoc the exotic Phragmites subspecies can wreak on an
> ecosystem, but do we know anything about the native subspecies?   *Is
> there any research out there showing that the native Phragmites can behave
> as aggressively as the exotic?  *In Door County, the native usually grows
> in scattered to moderate densities along with other wetland plants, with a
> few patches showing denser concentrations.  There are a few areas where the
> native has reached undesirable “dense” concentrations, but as of yet we
> don’t know why.****
>
>  ****
>
> *What other plants are associated with the native Phragmites?*  TNC will
> be setting up monitoring plots soon on some of our native patches, and when
> we get that data I’ll send it to any interested people from this list.  The
> only list I’ve been able to find is from a chapter by Laura Meyerson et al.
> in “Invasions in North American Salt Marshes” entitled “Phragmites
> australis in Eastern North America: A Historical and Ecological
> Perspective”.  Does anyone know of other lists from different regions of
> the U.S.?****
>
>  ****
>
> *Are there any patterns to where native Phragmites is found?  *During my
> mapping of the plant in Door County, I’ve generally found native Phragmites
> set back from the edge of waterways and growing in more marshy areas.****
>
>  ****
>
> *What have you all seen as far as size of patches, number of patches,
> location, rate of spread, etc. of the native Phragmites in your area?  *Most
> of the wetlands in Door County are fed by alkaline ground water discharge
> as a result of movement through the underlying dolomitic bedrock.  I assume
> that because of these alkaline conditions we have a higher population of
> native Phragmites than perhaps other regions of the Midwest.  Is this
> true?  ****
>
>  ****
>
> To help answer these questions, The Nature Conservancy’s Door Peninsula
> office has temporarily halted eradication measures of native lineages of *
> Phragmites*.  We are in the process of developing long-term monitoring
> plots in native *Phragmites *stands throughout Nature Conservancy
> holdings in Door County, WI.  The goals of this monitoring project will be
> to assess the following questions:****
>
> *1.**      *Under what conditions do native stands become aggressive?****
>
> *2.**      *At what threshold is a native stand damaging to the
> community? ****
>
> *3.**      *What plants are commonly associated with native *Phragmites *in
> the Great Lakes region?****
>
> If you are interested, I can send you a more detailed methodology for our
> monitoring project, including what parameters we will be sampling.  ****
>
>  ****
>
> As an additional note, I’d encourage people to mention there is a native
> variety of Phragmites and differentiate between the two strains in any
> publications or documents.****
>
>  ****
>
> I look forward to your input!****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks again,****
>
> Katy Cummings****
>
> katy.e.cummings at gmail.com****
>
>
>
> --
> Katherine E. Cummings
> Door Peninsula Conservation Intern
> The Nature Conservancy
> Sturgeon Bay, WI****
>
> _______________________________________________
> native-plants mailing list
> native-plants at lists.plantconservation.org
>
> http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/native-plants_lists.plantconservation.org
>
> Disclaimer
> Posts on this list reflect only the opinion of the individual who is
> posting the message; they are not official opinions or positions of the
> Plant Conservation Alliance.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to
> native-plants-request at lists.plantconservation.org with the word
> "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
>



-- 
Sylvan Kaufman
www.SylvanGreenEarth.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.plantconservation.org/pipermail/native-plants_lists.plantconservation.org/attachments/20120827/7e9cdbc4/attachment.html>