[MPWG] Reply to Rob Wolkow MD

[cecelia dalzin]

Rob, 

Thank you for your response. Both your view point and Mr. Hughes are needed
to further the understanding for us all to benefit. I do totally agree with
you that not all herbs work for all the claims that are made. This to me is
sort of a way of standardizing the herb to fit the allopathic context. For
example taking St.Johns Wort and advertising its benefits for treating
depression when it may not be the correct remedy for each individual at all.

But again the pharmaceutical companies that are now advertising some
standardized herbs need to be wholistic in their attempts to 'market' it.
I guess marketing is the difficult concept that doesn't really fit into a
wholistic approach to health because treating with herbs is so individual.
Alot of rethinking our approach and our desired outcome to how we heal
ourselves is involved here.

Testing and studying herbal remedies is the only way to proceed. Salutory
claims are not what we need. Again marketing is sort of in the way isn't it?

We certainly need to address and protect these plants survival in the wild
as well as share what we learn along the way honestly and without the single
goal of marketing for profit from use of a plant that may not be suited to
every person's need. We do have much to learn not only about the herbs
chemical makeup but also about how they work with different persons
individual needs. As Mr. Hughes also states there are hundreds of thousands
of variations from individual to individual. So now that we are venturing
out of the model of one remedy suits all and looking at each individual
remedy and each individual person we will be learning quite a bit and it
will all take time to evolve.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Cecelia Dalzin

> From: "Wolkow, Robert" <Robert.Wolkow at pfizer.com>
> Reply-To: PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group List
> <MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org>
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 15:53:20 -0500
> To: "'PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group List'"
> <MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org>
> Subject: RE: [MPWG] Reply to Rob Wolkow MD
> 
> Cecelia,
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts. I really don't disagree with anything you say. I
> have been merely trying to point out that not all herbs work for all the
> claims that are made on their behalf and that ideally, there should be ways
> and means to test the safety and efficacy of herbal remedies other than just
> "they have been used for centuries"----so has alcohol and tobacco. Further,
> when salutory claims are made without substantiation people are encouraged
> to exploit these natural resources possibly to the detriment of both the
> plants survival in the wild and their own well being if there is really a
> greater risk than benefit.
> 
> Rob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cecelia dalzin [mailto:cecelia at friend.ly.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 3:17 PM
> To: PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group List
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] Reply to Rob Wolkow MD
> 
> 
> I have to say Mr. Hughes that I agree completely with your letter to Dr.
> Wolkow and had saved his letter to respond to myself but you said it very
> well. I am not a doctor and am merely a recipient of traditional medicinal
> practices and know first hand to the benefits they hold. I do however
> understand the concern of Dr. Walkow for guarantees. But guarantees for
> medicines of both the isolated pharmaceutical variety and also the herbal
> medicines of the whole plant with all its constituents are hard to give, and
> herein lies the the fact that we also must bring our whole selves to our
> healing process physical mental and emotional....
> 
> The whole plant gives us more than the standardized pharmaceutical because
> it all works together in synergy. Also points to how only treating the
> symptoms as general medicine does will always come up lacking the ability to
> truly heal an individual. Really we have come a long way with both
> approaches. We have learned alot and we need both. We need the hard
> scientific allopathic and we need the wholistic. These are truly
> complementary. I know that at this time in our history we are just begining
> to recognize and accept the values offered by herbal medicine tho as you say
> many have found great use from it for centuries. And that until only a few
> generations ago this was our only source of medicinals and of course let us
> remember that most pharmaceuticals start as the plants so there seems no
> reason to remind us to respect our already proven knowledge of the benefits
> of herbal medicines. These types of disagreements will eventually lead us to
> sound levels of confidence and eventually we will reap the benefits of both
> approaches together in our society. This may not happen very soon but it
> will happen eventually. In the mean time it is most important to keep herbal
> medicines available to the public as they have always been. That I would say
> is my own personal concern that during these years of debates that the herbs
> will be restricted and that would surely be a step backwards that would not
> be in our best interest.
> 
> The way liability issues have driven our medical system this resticting
> availability of herbs would only be because of that. If people take
> responsibility for themselves and their own healing and use this school of
> thought more and more we will have less fear on the part of doctors to
> suggest patients try a natural remedy. it is up to the patient to learn how
> to take responsibility for their health and the more our mindset is deveoped
> in this way the healthier we will be and the stronger we will be.
> 
> I have been using and studying herbs and their benefits for almost 30 years.
> The more doctors study and allow this information to be a part of their
> analysis the more they will come to trust them as well. But at this time we
> are dealing with the first generation of doctors to be asked by their
> mainstream patients "what about herbs". When I first started to see
> advertisements on tv for herbs I knew we had entered a new phase in medicine
> in our country. It  will take a while to 'catch on' and many changes in the
> medical community will be hard to evolve as it will be a different way of
> thinking for doctors to put healing in the hands of the patient and to find
> himself/herself as only part of that process. Again I say because of the
> liability issues this will take some time and probably generations to
> evolve. But thru the work of many people like yourself sharing your
> knowledge I believe that change is inevitable. I am a positive thinker.
> 
> 
> Cecelia Dalzin 
> 
>> From: Ivor Hughes <Herbworks1 at xtra.co.nz>
>> Reply-To: PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group List
>> <MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org>
>> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 04:43:00 +1300
>> To: MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org
>> Subject: [MPWG] Reply to Rob Wolkow MD
>> 
>> I really must point out to Dr Wolkow that herbal medicine  is backed by
>> many  recorded centuries ... Empiric knowledge in this respect is
>> superior to scientific knowledge. If only for the reason that the usage
>> has survived the march of the generations ... that which is of no use is
>> abandoned. We do not need scientists to tell people something that every
>> mother used to know.
>> 
>> If we wish to talk of quackery and guessing games and outright fraud
>> then  we only have to point to the spurious clinical trials and the
>> horrendous proven death toll from orthodoxy. Millions of deaths on an
>> annual basis. Not one of the synthetics is safe.  The proof of that may
>> be found in any dispensatory or extra pharmacopoeia.
>> 
>> Couple that with the diagnostic record of most of the major teaching
>> hospitals and you will see that it is no better than tossing a coin
>> ..... the rate is 49% correct on autopsy (Shudder)
>> 
>> We are currently facing a total ecological disaster (Climate change)
>> this disaster has been achieved in less than 300 years and it has been
>> led by science.  What is happening on a global scale is reflected in our
>> specie ....  As Winston Churchill said " You can fool some of the people
>> some of the time, but one cannot fool all the people, all of the time "
>> That is why in developed nations informed people spend more on
>> traditional medicine than they do on the dangerous scientific synthetics.
>> 
>> Come and sit with me on a daily basis Dr Wolkow  .... I will show you a
>> stream of people who have been through the orthodox medicine mill .....
>> until they are finally abandoned  (keep taking the pills) and sentenced
>> to a rapidly declining health and often a painful death, if orthodox
>> procedures are followed .....
>> 
>> Ivor Hughes
>> www.herbdatanz.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MPWG mailing list
>> MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org
>> 
> http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva
> ti
>> on.org
>> 
>> Disclaimer      
>> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc.
> reflects
>> ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The information
>> contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for
>> professional medical advice relative to your specific medical condition or
>> question. All medical and other healthcare information that is discussed
> on
>> this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader and their
>> qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any official
> opinions
>> or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MPWG mailing list
> MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org
> http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva
> tion.org
> 
> Disclaimer       
> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc.
> reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The
> information contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a
> substitute for professional medical advice relative to your specific medical
> condition or question. All medical and other healthcare information that is
> discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader
> and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any
> official opinions or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MPWG mailing list
> MPWG at lists.plantconservation.org
> http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconservati
> on.org
> 
> Disclaimer       
> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc. reflects
> ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The information
> contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for
> professional medical advice relative to your specific medical condition or
> question. All medical and other healthcare information that is discussed on
> this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader and their
> qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any official opinions
> or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.