[APWG] Ecosystem restoration NE Roadside planting Re: Why not succeed the first time, with Performance Standards?

Fri Aug 28 15:18:14 CDT 2009

A Univ of Nebr study is underway now to look at what remains of seed planted 10 years or more.  We should have results within a year and I don't want to "guess" until we get those results.

Steep requires more definition.  We generally grade foreslopes (below the road) 1:6, and backslopes (to edge of ROW) 1:3 when cutting/removing soil.  When filling, foreslopes may be graded 1:3.  The steepness is not as serious a problem as the slope length.  When 1:3 slopes run longer than 50' we will generally have rill erosion.  The maximum slope allowed in the sandhills is 1:4 and there are many backslopes that have 50% coverage compared to adjacent land.  The only slides we encounter occur in the northern part of the state where there is some shale.  The earth shoulder adjacent to the road is least likely to grow good vegetation.  So many vehicles drive off the road, farm equipment is wider than our typical 12' lane, salt etc.

The legislature passed a law a few years back to allow haying of the ROW by permit.  Permits for the same area cannot be issued more than every other year.  NDOR mows the first 30' of ROW 2-3 times per year for safety.  First mowing around Memorial Day, second before or during fall for snow storage. The clippings are not collected and the height varies from scalped to 5".  Around Omaha they mow everything out at least 3 times during the growing season.

In short, sometimes we're dealing with subsoil 30' below the original grade when cutting and have fills of 20' (vertical) in others.  We try to stockpile topsoil but there is not always space available for stockpiling.  Safety standards are pushing the roads wider and straighter so cuts and fills keep growing.  These standards have a substantial impact on the landscape that is left to reseed.

I'll be out of the office next week but will return to the thread afterwards.
Here's a link to our "Landscape Plan" that will receive an award at ICOET (?) in Duluth.  It's our start on more sustainable management:
http://www.dor.state.ne.us/environment/roadside-plan.html

Thanks for your interest.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Tyson [mailto:landrest at cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:01 PM
To: Krohn, Alison; apwg at lists.plantconservation.org
Subject: Ecosystem restoration NE Roadside planting Re: [APWG] Why not succeed the first time, with Performance Standards?

I'd like to know where intermediate wheatgrass does and does not persist.

In places where roadsides are steep, do any surficial slope failures occur?

I'm glad you don't spray the brome.

When you mow, do you remove the hay or leave it lay?

WT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Krohn, Alison" <Alison.Krohn at nebraska.gov>
To: <afrates at addsuminc.com>; <apwg at lists.plantconservation.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [APWG] Why not succeed the first time, with Performance
Standards?

> Please understand all of our seeding projects are native but our biologist
> includes one non-native species other than cover crop.  Intermediate
> wheatgrass is supposed to disappear over time (though I have my doubts).
> Since 1977 Nebraska has used warm season grasses for all roadside seeding.
> We have been doing this much longer than Iowa because fescue will not
> survive in the western part of the state.  We do seed natives next to
> brome but if the brome invades we don't spray it.  Some of the best tools
> for managing native grasslands however are unavailable to us: prescribed
> burning and grazing.  I'm always pleased to see a grass fire on the
> interstate caused by a burning vehicle as long as no one is hurt.   Thanks
> so much for all of your input and it's true that some of our roadsides are
> important refugia for rare native species.  The threatened western prairie
> fringed orchid, lady's slipper, and many other rare plants thrive in our
> ditches and we protect them.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org
> [mailto:apwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] On Behalf Of Addsum-Tony
> Frates
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:47 PM
> To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> Subject: Re: [APWG] Why not succeed the first time, with Performance
> Standards?
>
>
>
> Alison - I think you point out practical problems that exist that need to
> be taken into
> account into various strategies and techniques available.
>
> I will not try to define a weed, but I think it is clear that any plant
> that is not historically
> native (natural) to a given area and that has a known or any likely
> tendency to spread
> into adjoining open spaces should not  be planted in any roadside
> projects, ever (nor
> in response to mitigation of projects of all kinds which roads are also
> often a very
> large part of - suppose you have hundreds of miles of roads that lead to
> oil and gas
> pads in an otherwise remote area and which intersect rare plant habitat  -
> you
> wouldn't want to introduce something new into that area for many reasons
> that are
> hopefully apparent).
>
> Oftentimes too, roadsides are one of the few refuges for native plants in
> many areas.
> So, in my opinion, roadsides should most definitely be viewed as more of a
> restoration than not, and whenever possible that approach should be taken.
> All
> available open lands in fact should use natural/native components to the
> extent
> possible.  Always.
>
> So it is indeed sad that you reseed an area adjoining a brome pasture with
> brome.
> That would seem to add fuel to the fire.   If the brome is going to invade
> anyway, why
> not still seed with something else?  Part of the problem is that these are
> really multi-
> year projects and not single one-shot problems yet agencies are not taking
> that into
> account (no doubt due to lack of funding, understanding, etc.).   Agencies
> have to
> ultimately change their approach somehow.   Part of the problem is that
> whoever is
> causing the disturbance in the first place is not paying their full share
> in connection
> with the damage that they are causing.  That is where the money should at
> least in
> part be coming from.
>
> So to answer one question, I would say absolutely not.  This discussion is
> hardly
> limited to any geographic area whatsoever.  It applies to anywhere in the
> world.
>
> As to laws that require otherwise, we are all forced to comply with rules
> and
> regulations that we do not necessarily agree with or that were not
> implemented
> based on good science (or should be changed based on newer knowledge).
> So we
> comply, but we work and strive for change based on the best available
> science and
> based on an ecosystem approach as our model.    The lack of available seed
> is truly
> a problem as you point out, but one that with more enlightened laws and
> stewardship
> would lead to the growing of ecotypes that could hypothetically support
> the demand if
> techniques were developed, or at least that would be the ideal.
>
> Yes there is a lot of frustration that I think we all share.   But we can
> do better.  And
> so we have to start somewhere.   So, why not with roadsides?   We've
> covered the
> planet with more roads than anything else and we don't appear to be
> stopping.
>
>
> Tony Frates
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:           "Krohn, Alison" <Alison.Krohn at nebraska.gov>
> To:             Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company
> <Craig at astreet.com>,
> "apwg at lists.plantconservation.org" <apwg at lists.plantconservation.org>
> Date sent:      Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:54:01 -0500
> Subject:        Re: [APWG] Why not succeed the first time,
> with Performance Standards?
>
> [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
>
> How does this group define a weed?  Are naturalized plants like lambs
> quarters
> viewed the same as native ragweed?  I'm very confused by the insistence on
> 100%
> native purity. I don't think it's possible in the Midwest. I work for a
> state transportation
> agency and we seed 98% native species, not local ecotype.  But when our
> seeding
> adjoins a brome pasture, brome will invade and we cannot spend public
> resources to
> prevent that.  Is this discussion confined to the great basin and
> California?
>
> Is everyone aware of the clean water act and the requirements of the NPDES
> construction permit?  Anywhere more than 1 acre is disturbed (unless
> you're a
> farmer) a construction stormwater permit is required and remains open
> until 70% of
> the pre-construction/native, perennial vegetation is restored.  Most of
> the roadsides
> we are regrading and seeding were brome.  Native prairie vegetation,
> especially
> mixed grass areas will provide less vegetative cover than the brome and
> therefore
> will potentially discharge more sediment into our waterways (if you
> believe the
> RUSLE2 model).  I'm not advocating brome, just want to point out the mixed
> messages out there and conflicting expectations.  We must stabilize
> erodible soils
> within 14 days under the clean water act to protect our waterways.  This
> state uses a
> mix of cool and warm season grasses to meet this requirement along with
> some
> forbs. It is not a restoration mix.
>
> I also grow local ecotype seed and obviously support its  use but there is
> not enough
> of this seed in our area to restore roadsides and there doesn't appear to
> be the
> public support for this endeavor in terms of dollars from FHWA, the state
> government or wealthy donors. I applaud all of the research that Craig and
> others are
> doing but am frustrated by the assumption that roadsides are restorations.
> We just
> don't have the resources to pull it off.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org
> [mailto:apwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] On Behalf Of Craig
> Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: apwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> Subject: [APWG] Why not succeed the first time, with Performance
> Standards?
>
> Dear Wayne and All,
>
> Thanks for your email.
>
> Did everyone enjoy the Europe to Africa vegetation Megatransect  at
> http://www.ecoseeds.com/europe_africa_megatransect.html ?
> I extended the web page yesterday, to cover from the northern tip of
> Norway (70N) to the southern tip of Africa (34S).  How about those rocks
> in Mali at 18N?
>
> What I am suggesting, is that we start looking for weed management or
> Ecological Restoration methods, with Performance Standards, for our
> projects, espcially the government-funded ones, like habitat restoration,
> or highway roadsides, etc.
>
> Up to now, when someone purchased local native seeds, or purchased native
> plants from a nursery, there was a hope that the seed company or the
> nursery would be able to tell you, how to plant those seeds or plants, so
> they would succeed and thrive in a wildlands situation.
>
> Being the owner of a seed company and nursery myself, it is all that a
> seed company or nursery can do for the price, to deliver good germinating,
> weed-free native seeds, or nurseries to deliver healthy native plants---to
> expect them to give you any advice on how to plant them in a wildlands
> situation, is way, way beyond the scope of their work.
>
> Successful technologies on planting those natives back into wildlands, and
> getting them to survive, is a separate, very expensive puzzle to solve,
> and is going to require a separate, very significant investment.
>
> That is why I set forth a set of costs per 1/10th acre, on how much it may
> cost to invent the technologies necessary, at
> http://www.ecoseeds.com/standards.html
>
> A similar situation happened in the computer industry before 1967.
> Computers were built and sold, and the software and operating systems were
> free.  But when the programs and operating systems were free,  there was
> no economic incentive to write better ones, so they were very slow and
> clunky--it might take 12 hours to process one job, for example.
>
> Then, in 1967, Kenneth Kolence started the first business to write and
> license software, and his first product was one that is still used today,
> the disk defragmentation program, which rearranged the programs on the
> disk so all the parts of each program were right next to each other,
> greatly speeding up the computer operations.
>
> It seems much more efficient, to start out buying or licensing a
> pre-tested weed management or ecological restoration program, that has
> some solid Performance Standards supporting it?
>
> Otherwise, the scary, horror-show of the I-505 planting in the Sacramento
> valley, we see it is possible to invest $450,000 on a couple of acres,
> and by using the unlicensed, public domain, off-the-shelf free restoration
> technologies, still not get it right after six years and five planting
> attempts?  Why not succeed the first time?
>
> Sincerely,  Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333
>
>
>
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> Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
> opinion of the individual posting the message.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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