[APWG] Altering is too kind, destroy not strong enough

Wed Mar 5 01:55:36 CST 2008

If we're going to talk semantics, let's be sure and get it right.  See 
below* for my Webster's definitions for "destroy."

Not one of the definitions states or implies anything about anything 
being "bad."

However, definition 2 is certainly applicable, with respect to the 
native ecosystems (if the native ecosystem is "replaced," as you suggest).

Definitions 2 and 4 also apply, if "use(fulness)" includes the 
sustenance of native species or systems.

pt at hear.org

*1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or 
remains...

2. to put an end to; extinguish

3. to kill; slay

4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate

5. to defeat completely

6. to engage in destroying things

Now

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Beyfuss <rlb14 at cornell.edu>
> To: Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company <Craig at astreet.com>; 
> apwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> Sent: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 4:22 pm
> Subject: Re: [APWG] Altering is too kind, destroy not strong enough
> 
> Hi Craig and all,
> 
> Replaced is the correct term.
> 
> Destroying implies a value judgment that the invasive plants are "bad" and 
> 
> the plants that they are replacing are "good". In science there are no 
> 
> "good" or "bad" plants as there are no "good" or "bad" ecosystems. Nature 
> 
> lovers may not like or may not find attractive the ecosystems that occur, 
> 
> for example, in a vacant lot in an inner city but that does not make those 
> 
> ecosystems "bad'. There are particular ecosystems that humans want to 
> 
> protect for many reasons and that is fine but these are human value 
> 
> judgements. If a scientist studying any particular ecosystem did not know 
> 
> ahead of time that it was dominated by invasive, exotic plants, it would be 
> 
> impossible for he or she to determine if the plants present on site were 
> 
> native or exotic based on the biology of the plants and their 
> 
> interactions.  Let me cite a real life example to make my point. A few 
> 
> weeks ago a client called me looking for information on how to eradicate 
> 
> invasive, Asiatic bittersweet that she had found on her property.  I asked 
> 
> her if she was certain that it was the Asiatic variety and not the native 
> 
> bittersweet. She replied that she no idea how to distinguish them. I asked 
> 
> her if it turned out that the bittersweet on her property were the native 
> 
> variety, would she still want to eradicate it? Her answer was "of course 
> 
> not". Her only criteria for wanting to eradicate the plant was the 
> 
> supposition that it was exotic. In my mind that is not a good reason to 
> 
> eradicate anything, especaill\y when there are no guarantees that the 
> 
> plants eradicated will not be replaced by something even less desirable. 
> 
> When science is reduced  to name calling to provoke an emotional response, 
> 
> it is not science.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 03:13 PM 3/4/2008, Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company wrote:
> 
>>Dear All,
> 
>>
> 
>>I am very surpised to read the discussions on the semantics, of what to
> 
>>call exotic plants and their impacts on local native ecosystems.
> 
>>
> 
>>I can only speak from the California perspective, where 99% of the
> 
>>understory of our native ecosystems between 2 and 2,000 feet elevation,
> 
>>have been replaced by over 1,000 species of exotic plants.
> 
>>
> 
>>What do you call that effect, using words that express such a complete
> 
>>extermination of native ecosystems, within only 150 years or less?
> 
>>
> 
>>Ecosystem genocide?  Permanent native vegetation extinction, continuing
> 
>>through geologic time?
> 
>>
> 
>>Sincerely,  Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333
> 
>>
> 
>>
> 
>>_______________________________________________
> 
>>PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
> 
>>APWG at lists.plantconservation.org <mailto:APWG at lists.plantconservation.org>
> 
>>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
> 
>>
> 
>>Disclaimer
> 
>>Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the 
> 
>>opinion of the individual posting the message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 

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     Philip Thomas        Hawaiian Ecosystems at Risk project (HEAR)
      pt at hear.org         P.O. Box 1272, Puunene, Hawaii  96784  USA
                                   http://www.hear.org/

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