[APWG] Altering is too kind, destroy not strong enough
Philip Thomas (www.HEAR.org)
pt at hear.org
Wed Mar 5 01:55:36 CST 2008
If we're going to talk semantics, let's be sure and get it right. See
below* for my Webster's definitions for "destroy."
Not one of the definitions states or implies anything about anything
being "bad."
However, definition 2 is certainly applicable, with respect to the
native ecosystems (if the native ecosystem is "replaced," as you suggest).
Definitions 2 and 4 also apply, if "use(fulness)" includes the
sustenance of native species or systems.
pt at hear.org
*1. to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or
remains...
2. to put an end to; extinguish
3. to kill; slay
4. to render ineffective or useless; nullify; neutralize; invalidate
5. to defeat completely
6. to engage in destroying things
Now
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Beyfuss <rlb14 at cornell.edu>
> To: Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company <Craig at astreet.com>;
> apwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> Sent: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 4:22 pm
> Subject: Re: [APWG] Altering is too kind, destroy not strong enough
>
> Hi Craig and all,
>
> Replaced is the correct term.
>
> Destroying implies a value judgment that the invasive plants are "bad" and
>
> the plants that they are replacing are "good". In science there are no
>
> "good" or "bad" plants as there are no "good" or "bad" ecosystems. Nature
>
> lovers may not like or may not find attractive the ecosystems that occur,
>
> for example, in a vacant lot in an inner city but that does not make those
>
> ecosystems "bad'. There are particular ecosystems that humans want to
>
> protect for many reasons and that is fine but these are human value
>
> judgements. If a scientist studying any particular ecosystem did not know
>
> ahead of time that it was dominated by invasive, exotic plants, it would be
>
> impossible for he or she to determine if the plants present on site were
>
> native or exotic based on the biology of the plants and their
>
> interactions. Let me cite a real life example to make my point. A few
>
> weeks ago a client called me looking for information on how to eradicate
>
> invasive, Asiatic bittersweet that she had found on her property. I asked
>
> her if she was certain that it was the Asiatic variety and not the native
>
> bittersweet. She replied that she no idea how to distinguish them. I asked
>
> her if it turned out that the bittersweet on her property were the native
>
> variety, would she still want to eradicate it? Her answer was "of course
>
> not". Her only criteria for wanting to eradicate the plant was the
>
> supposition that it was exotic. In my mind that is not a good reason to
>
> eradicate anything, especaill\y when there are no guarantees that the
>
> plants eradicated will not be replaced by something even less desirable.
>
> When science is reduced to name calling to provoke an emotional response,
>
> it is not science.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 03:13 PM 3/4/2008, Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company wrote:
>
>>Dear All,
>
>>
>
>>I am very surpised to read the discussions on the semantics, of what to
>
>>call exotic plants and their impacts on local native ecosystems.
>
>>
>
>>I can only speak from the California perspective, where 99% of the
>
>>understory of our native ecosystems between 2 and 2,000 feet elevation,
>
>>have been replaced by over 1,000 species of exotic plants.
>
>>
>
>>What do you call that effect, using words that express such a complete
>
>>extermination of native ecosystems, within only 150 years or less?
>
>>
>
>>Ecosystem genocide? Permanent native vegetation extinction, continuing
>
>>through geologic time?
>
>>
>
>>Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>
>>PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list
>
>>APWG at lists.plantconservation.org <mailto:APWG at lists.plantconservation.org>
>
>>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org
>
>>
>
>>Disclaimer
>
>>Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
>
>>opinion of the individual posting the message.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
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Philip Thomas Hawaiian Ecosystems at Risk project (HEAR)
pt at hear.org P.O. Box 1272, Puunene, Hawaii 96784 USA
http://www.hear.org/
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