<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If I understand Dremann correctly, he does not know
"the id of the active herbicide chemicals in the plants," but if this is true,
how does on "measure the chemical effects of one plant against
another?" </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't mind guesswork; I've done it all my life,
but I like a reasonably sound theoretical foundation under my feet before I make
big claims. I'm not shy about going beyond the data either. I even like
metaphor, simile, analogy, etc., but most of all I enjoy irony--hell, one has to
in this world full of lies. "The roughest guess that gets the job done" is my
motto. But none of those things, in my view, interferes with intellectual
integrity, science, or scholarship--as long as the gaps are acknowledged.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><FONT
size=2>'The Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska has written "…the little phrase 'I
don't know' is small, but it flies on mighty wings. It expands our lives to
include spaces within us as well as the outer expanses in which our tiny earth
hangs suspended."' </FONT><A
href="http://www.pplp.org/Poetry%20Series/Tellmewhat.htm"><FONT
size=2>http://www.pplp.org/Poetry%20Series/Tellmewhat.htm</FONT></A><FONT
size=2>; <A href="http://gos.sbc.edu/s/szymborska.html"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"
size=3>http://gos.sbc.edu/s/szymborska.html</FONT></A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:Craig@astreet.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Craig@astreet.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;
<</FONT><A href="mailto:rwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>rwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:55
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: [RWG] Allelopathy knowledge can save time
when weeding+restoringareas</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Dear All,<BR>> <BR>> Thanks for your email. I got a
couple of offline questions about knowing<BR>> the id of the active herbicide
chemicals in the plants, and why use 2<BR>> inches of the Stipa straw?
I am posting my reply, as it might be of<BR>> interest to all:<BR>>
<BR>> Even if we do not know exactly what chemicals in these plants are
working<BR>> against the weeds, if we figure out how to use them to our
advantage,<BR>> perhaps they could save a huge amount of time and labor for
all of our<BR>> weed management or restoration project?<BR>> <BR>> If
we think of these chemicals as antibiotics, and we are applying them to<BR>>
a macroscopic petri dish, then they could be visualized that way.<BR>>
<BR>> Instead of waiting for someone to id the chemicals that were active
before<BR>> I could use them, I thought it was more important to invent
a method to<BR>> measure the chemical effects of one plant against another,
and give each<BR>> plant a number 1-100 to indicate their power?<BR>>
<BR>> Then it becomes like a poker game, where a 8 beats a 3 for
example.<BR>> <BR>> I am using 2 inches of Stipa mulch, for its long
lasting effect at the<BR>> site, because of the multi-layered dormant weed
grass seeds in the soil.<BR>> <BR>> On the site in Palo Alto, there is a
150 year history of the introduction<BR>> of weed grasses buried in layers
like an archaeological site, with the<BR>> most dominant grass suppressing
the germination of the dormant seeds of<BR>> the next, and so forth, and
there are at least 5 layers out there.<BR>> <BR>> So let's say from the
pictures at </FONT><A href="http://www.ecoseeds.com/arastradero.html"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.ecoseeds.com/arastradero.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> that wild oats is the most dominant layer, so when you
suppress the wild<BR>> oat seeds from germinating, then the ripgut grass
seeds get to germinate. <BR>> Then when you suppress the ripgut, the Blando
brome is allowed to<BR>> germinate.<BR>> <BR>> When you suppress the
Blando, the Perennial ryegrass may by your final<BR>> layer of weed
grasses. But wait--you are not done yet with the dormant<BR>> weed
seeds!<BR>> <BR>> Now all the different annual and biennial forb weeds
that were suppressed<BR>> by all the grasses will want their turn to sprout,
once the suppression of<BR>> the allelochemicals of the grasses has been
released.<BR>> <BR>> Before I begin any large scale project, I want to
know accurately what the<BR>> allelochemical strength for each weed species
and each native species on<BR>> the site. Then as the team captain for
the natives, I know which natives<BR>> I should pick for my team to
beat the exotics.<BR>> <BR>> For the cheatgrass, just planting back the
local native grasses will<BR>> permanently take care of that weed nicely, as
you can see my photos from<BR>> the 600 acres that were planted in the Great
Basin at<BR>> </FONT><A href="http://www.ecoseeds.com/greatbasin.html"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.ecoseeds.com/greatbasin.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> I am going to look forward to others reading
these two lists, who will<BR>> experiment with this idea over the next year,
and we should share our<BR>> results next summer, and see what strong
allelopathic native and exotic<BR>> plants we have come up with in the
different parts of the country?<BR>> <BR>> Sincerely, Craig Dremann
(650) 325-7333<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> PCA's Restoration
Working Group mailing list<BR>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:RWG@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>RWG@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> </FONT><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/rwg_lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/rwg_lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> <BR>> -----<BR>> No virus found in this
message.<BR>> Checked by AVG - </FONT><A href="http://www.avg.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>www.avg.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3872 - Release Date:
09/02/11<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>