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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thank you Julie. You said everything that I have been composing in my head! I will also add that “invasive” – as you define it – is also the standard international usage.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Johnny Randall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Johnny Randall, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Director of Conservation Programs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">North Carolina Botanical Garden<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">CB 3375<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chapel Hill NC 27599<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ncbg.unc.edu<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(W) 919-962-0522<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(C) 919-923-0100<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org [mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Julie Knudson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 28, 2012 1:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Patricia_DeAngelis@fws.gov<br>
<b>Cc:</b> native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org; apwg@lists.plantconservation.org; Katy Cummings<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [APWG] [PCA] Native Phragmites Data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would throw in a couple more cents here...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To Bob:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"An invasive species is a non-native species whose introduction does or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human, animal, or plant health." - National Invasive Species Council<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"Invasive Plant: A plant that is both non-native and able to establish on many sites, grow quickly, and spread to the point of disrupting plant communities or ecosystems. Note: From the Presidential Executive Order 13112 (February 1999):
'An invasive species is defined as a species that is 1) non-native (or alien) to the ecosystem under consideration and 2) whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health.' In contrast to item 2) of the
Executive Order, which includes plants invasive in agricultural settings, the Connecticut Invasive Plant Working Group lists non-native plants as invasive only if they invade minimally managed (natural) areas." - Natural Resource Conservation Service<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would just be careful (depending on what circles you are speaking in) in saying that a native plant can be 'invasive', as officially I think 'invasive species' are defined as non-natives. It is just semantics, but I might argue that native
plants can be 'weedy' or 'aggressive', but not technically 'invasive'.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To Katy - How are you addressing the potential native-invasive Phragmites hybrid issue? I would be interested in hearing more about your project - sounds interesting!
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<p class="MsoNormal">Julie<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Julie Knudson<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tamarisk Coalition<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">970-256-7400<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:25 AM, <<a href="mailto:Patricia_DeAngelis@fws.gov" target="_blank">Patricia_DeAngelis@fws.gov</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Cheers, Bob!</span> <br>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">My two cents: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">A native can most definitely be an invasive. Teal and Mark's comments elucidate that issue well.
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I'm not sure what list you might be referring to, but from what I understand of the Federal Noxious Weed list, I believe that plants that are either naturalized or have completely overrun the US will not end up
on that list. I believe that list tends to include species that are in the earlier stages of invasion where prevention of further influxes can still make a difference for slowing the spread. I also doubt it would be on any state list - those often tend to
be geared to non-natives and ornamental plants - of which poison ivy is neither. </span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">It seems like poison ivy falls into a strange no-man's land - as a native, it doesn't seem to fit on the PCA ALien Plant WOrking Group listserve - yet the expertise on that list may be more appropriate (versus
this general native plant listserve) because they are the folks with specific insight on invasive species biology.
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I wonder if any of the National Park Service Exotic Plant Management Teams have identified it as among their top ten target taxa in any of their regions? </span>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">-Patricia</span> <br>
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<span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Patricia S. De Angelis, Ph.D.<br>
Botanist, Division of Scientific Authority-US Fish & Wildlife Service-International Affairs<br>
Chair, Medicinal Plant Working Group-Plant Conservation Alliance<br>
4401 N. Fairfax Dr., Suite 110<br>
Arlington, VA 22203<br>
<a href="tel:703-358-1708%20x1753" target="_blank">703-358-1708 x1753</a><br>
FAX: <a href="tel:703-358-2276" target="_blank">703-358-2276</a><br>
<br>
Promoting sustainable use and conservation of our native medicinal plants. <br>
<<a href="http://www.nps.gov/plants/medicinal" target="_blank">www.nps.gov/plants/medicinal</a>><br>
<br>
Follow International Affairs<br>
> on Twitter </span><a href="http://twitter.com/USFWSInternatl" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">http://twitter.com/USFWSInternatl<br>
> on Facebook </span></a><a href="http://www.facebook.com/USFWS_InternationalAffairs" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">http://www.facebook.com/USFWS_InternationalAffairs</span></a>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Robert Layton Beyfuss <<a href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank">rlb14@cornell.edu</a>></span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sent by: <a href="mailto:native-plants-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank">
native-plants-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">08/27/2012 09:45 AM</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Katy Cummings <<a href="mailto:katy.e.cummings@gmail.com" target="_blank">katy.e.cummings@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank">native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank">native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org</a>></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Re: [PCA] Native Phragmites Data</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#004080">Hi All</span> <br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#004080">I am a bit confused and hope you can enlighten me. I thought that the basic definition of an invasive plant was that it had to be exotic. There are many native plants that create almost solid monocultures
such as common goldenrod yet can it be “undesirable” at any density? . Poison ivy can overrun entire areas but I have never seen it listed as invasive.
</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#004080">Bob </span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#004080"> </span> <br>
<b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:native-plants-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank">
native-plants-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:native-plants-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank">native-plants-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Katy Cummings<b><br>
Sent:</b> Monday, August 20, 2012 9:28 PM<b><br>
To:</b> <a href="mailto:native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank">
native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org</a><b><br>
Subject:</b> [PCA] Native Phragmites Data</span> <br>
<br>
Fellow Conservationists- <br>
<br>
I work for The Nature Conservancy (TNC) in Door County, WI. My main project this summer has been mapping exotic and native stands of Phragmites (<i>Phragmites australis</i> and
<i>Phragmites australis americanus</i>) throughout TNC properties in Door County. I have some questions and experiences to share with you as our organization tries to learn more about the native/exotic Phragmites issue.
<br>
<br>
We all know what havoc the exotic Phragmites subspecies can wreak on an ecosystem, but do we know anything about the native subspecies?
<b>Is there any research out there showing that the native Phragmites can behave as aggressively as the exotic? </b>In Door County, the native usually grows in scattered to moderate densities along with other wetland plants, with a few patches showing denser
concentrations. There are a few areas where the native has reached undesirable “dense” concentrations, but as of yet we don’t know why.
<br>
<br>
<b>What other plants are associated with the native Phragmites?</b> TNC will be setting up monitoring plots soon on some of our native patches, and when we get that data I’ll send it to any interested people from this list. The only list I’ve been able to
find is from a chapter by Laura Meyerson et al. in “Invasions in North American Salt Marshes” entitled “Phragmites australis in Eastern North America: A Historical and Ecological Perspective”. Does anyone know of other lists from different regions of the
U.S.? <br>
<br>
<b>Are there any patterns to where native Phragmites is found? </b>During my mapping of the plant in Door County, I’ve generally found native Phragmites set back from the edge of waterways and growing in more marshy areas.
<br>
<br>
<b>What have you all seen as far as size of patches, number of patches, location, rate of spread, etc. of the native Phragmites in your area? </b>Most of the wetlands in Door County are fed by alkaline ground water discharge as a result of movement through
the underlying dolomitic bedrock. I assume that because of these alkaline conditions we have a higher population of native Phragmites than perhaps other regions of the Midwest. Is this true?
<br>
<br>
To help answer these questions, The Nature Conservancy’s Door Peninsula office has temporarily halted eradication measures of native lineages of
<i>Phragmites</i>. We are in the process of developing long-term monitoring plots in native
<i>Phragmites </i>stands throughout Nature Conservancy holdings in Door County, WI. The goals of this monitoring project will be to assess the following questions:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><i>1.</i><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></i>Under what conditions do native stands become aggressive?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><i>2.</i><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></i>At what threshold is a native stand damaging to the community?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><i>3.</i><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></i>What plants are commonly associated with native
<i>Phragmites </i>in the Great Lakes region? <br>
If you are interested, I can send you a more detailed methodology for our monitoring project, including what parameters we will be sampling.
<br>
<br>
As an additional note, I’d encourage people to mention there is a native variety of Phragmites and differentiate between the two strains in any publications or documents.
<br>
<br>
I look forward to your input! <br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks again, <br>
Katy Cummings <br>
<a href="mailto:katy.e.cummings@gmail.com" target="_blank">katy.e.cummings@gmail.com</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Katherine E. Cummings<br>
Door Peninsula Conservation Intern<br>
The Nature Conservancy<br>
Sturgeon Bay, WI<tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________</span></tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
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