<head><style>body{font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}p{margin:0px;}</style></head><body><font color="#000000"><font size="2"><font face="arial,sans-serif">Again, this is exactly the type of honest input that will result in our better understanding the issues at hand. Thanks Bob, for taking the time to express your thoughts. Considering the source, thoughts which I believe should be strongly considered.<br><br>After reading your reply, I was reminded of a very brief and very relevant video I had watched recently that I will share:<br>http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/saving-endangered-species<br><br>Thanks again!<br>Robin<br></font></font></font><blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Robert Layton Beyfuss <rlb14@cornell.edu>
<br>Sent: Jan 15, 2014 3:48 PM
<br>To: MoonBranch Botanicals <moonbranch@earthlink.net>, Edward Fletcher <efletcher@strategicsourcinginc.net>, 'Roy Upton' <herbal@got.net>
<br>Cc: 'Ikhlas Khan' <ikhan@olemiss.edu>, "mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" <mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org>, 'Stefan Gafner' <stefan@herbalgram.org>, 'Mark Blumenthal' <mark@herbalgram.org>
<br>Subject: RE: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">My solution to all of this is indeed “out of the box”. I propose a complete deregulation of all aspects of ginseng harvest and trade at all levels of government.
Yes, a throwback to perhaps 100 years ago when this indeed was the case. There is no set of regulations anywhere that can fully protect the species in all situations and even if there was, there is no possible way to realistically enforce them. If ginseng
has value, as it surely does, human beings will find a way to preserve it for our own self interest. Poachers don’t think they are stealing their future or threatening the existence of a rare plant, they are just stealing something from a government entity
in the case of parks and public property, or they are robbing a landowner of something the landowner could care less about. If private landowners have ginseng on their property and care about it, it is not their responsibility to protect it if they want to,
just as they would protect their timber from theft. In the case of the Cape Cod fisherman, referenced several times below, who cannot grow codfish in the ocean themselves, the only possible protection of the wild fish species is to ban or restrict harvest.
Ginseng is a plant. A tricky plant to grow, indeed, in a forest situation, but nevertheless a plant that at one time was pretty common in North American forests. This plant is already grown in mass quantities in fields in Wisconsin and Canada. I would contend
that the main barrier towards growing it more extensively in the woods is the regulatory structure that it must comply with. Few (no) agricultural crops have to deal with the mass of red tape that ginseng culture and marketing entails. I can sell tomatoes
from my garden to anybody I want. To sell ginseng from my garden to a Chinese citizen I have to have it “certified” on at least four or five levels of bureaucracy at significant levels of complexity. And what advantage does this regulatory mess confer? Where
is the evidence that current regulatory policies have succeeded in protecting the species? Where have regulatory protected ginseng populations rebounded to such an extent that they are no longer threatened? Is not the actual evidence completely contradictory
to that notion? People may speculate that ginseng would already be extinct if not for the regulations, but where is the evidence to support that notion? Speculation proves nothing.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">The US Fish and Wildlife service now acknowledges that they have no way to distinguish intentionally grown wild simulated ginseng from “wild” ginseng, therefore,
what exactly are they trying to protect? They cannot say what percentage of “certified” wild ginseng is really wild. Their regulations are protecting only the “language” of a treaty that we have signed and nothing more. Are they trying to protect something
that I have been growing intentionally for the past 30 years? If so, I don’t want their help. If they are trying to protect something that is rapidly disappearing on public lands, the only way to effectively do so is to post a cop in every hollow in all of
ginseng’s range. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">The real solution is to encourage enough woodland cultivation to lower the price to a level where it would not pay anyone to hike five miles back on public
land to find a wild patch. Many of us have heard that ginseng has been hunted to extinction in China generations ago, with the reason given that it was unprotected. The facts are quite different. Hunting ginseng in China at times carried a death penalty. Ginseng
disappeared in China due to loss of suitable habitat. That also happened in the northeastern US when 85% of the forestland was removed a century ago. Today that forestland is returning and so can ginseng if we would just give it a chance.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">I am not some right wing extremist who thinks that regulations and government protection of natural resources is wrong. I am not a pure capitalist who believes
the government should stay out of business, period. My argument is for ginseng conservation and conservation means “wise use” . The current regulatory structure does not work. It is time to think out of the box.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> MPWG [mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>MoonBranch Botanicals<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 15, 2014 2:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Edward Fletcher; 'Roy Upton'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Ikhlas Khan'; mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org; 'Stefan Gafner'; 'Mark Blumenthal'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Hello Ed, I didn’t get your reply until late last night as I was out re-engineering for the third or fourth night now a support for a tarp cover over an
outside workspace. Looks like after today’s work is done it will be night five, which will be interesting considering the weather forecast!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">At any rate, I had written a response that I had saved as a draft rather than sending because I wanted to review it with renewed mental clarity before
I did so. I am glad that I did.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">So, on to the task at hand. You know, sometimes when working on a project like that tarp outside I often use a set of tools for the work. I have all kinds
of tools (some of which I couldn’t begin to find even) and seem to have a certain set that I regularly rely on. Those are kept handily in a tool box. I have used that same set over and over for so long that occasionally come up against a problem that I don’t
seem to have the proper tool to handle and wind up thinking to myself “If I only had a tool for that!”. Thing is, months later I’ll be cleaning or searching for something else and stumble upon that very tool I had needed before but didn’t even realize that
I had because I had never used it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">I use this tool example to illustrate what I believe to be a stumbling block at times for us humans. Oftentimes I see that we use the same “tools”, be
they a process, a system, a methodology or even just a way of thinking for so long that we forget all the other “tools” at our disposal. We truly must be “creatures of habit”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Sometimes I find that in order to look at things objectively and clearly, one may have to step outside the boundaries of that which they believe to be
“real”. In terms of solutions regarding the ginseng poaching dilemma, I suspect there are as many solutions as there are stars in the night sky. Trouble is, as with the tool example, we will never find them if we don’t look. And, we will never look if we do
not believe that they are there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Thinking back to my response to you from last night that I had saved as a draft and when I contrast it with the current response I realize that, in terms
of their nature, I have gone from non-specific to vague. There is a reason.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">When analyzing the parameters of any project, task at hand or issue and assessing what “tools” are needed to do the job, it may first be wise to understand
exactly what “went wrong” with or became broken in that which needs fixing. That said, I believe that a wise place to “start” might be at the beginning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Keeping that in mind I find myself returning to the question of “why?”. Why do people poach ginseng? Are they just bad people? Are they common thieves?
Are they deranged in-bred white trash rednecks hell bent on wiping out a species? What? You tell me…… Do you know? Does anybody know? If so I would love an answer there. And, if we find, as I suspect, that no one really knows, then don’t you think it wise
that we find out? In the process, I also suspect that we’ll discover about ourselves if we
<i>really want to save a species from peril or conversely, do we really just want to go through a known, comfortable and expected process.</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="color:black"> </span></i><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">So with that I will end at a beginning. In searching for a “why” I would ask each of you to consider the following. I have heard it said many times that
in order to love, one must first love oneself. With that in mind is it really logical to assume that one species which shows little respect, love or compassion for its own be expected to show the same for another species?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Can someone please speak to this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">- Robin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Edward Fletcher <br>
Sent: Jan 14, 2014 10:30 PM <br>
To: 'MoonBranch Botanicals' , 'Roy Upton' <br>
Cc: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>, 'Ikhlas Khan' , 'Stefan Gafner' , 'Mark Blumenthal'
<br>
Subject: RE: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">Robin,</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">Glad you decided to chime in.
</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">Points well taken and realized/considered.</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">Now what are your solutions?</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200"><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Genuinely,</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Edward J. Fletcher </span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Strategic Sourcing, Inc.</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Botanical Division, C.O.O.</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">828.898.7642</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Fax.898.7647</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho""><a target="_blank" href="mailto:Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</a></span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho""><a target="_blank" href="http://www.StrategicSourcingInc.net">www.StrategicSourcingInc.net</a></span></em></span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> "MoonBranch Botanicals" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:moonbranch@earthlink.net">moonbranch@earthlink.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 1/14/2014 8:35 PM <br>
<b>To:</b> "Roy Upton" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:herbal@got.net">herbal@got.net</a>>; "Edward Fletcher" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>>; "Ikhlas Khan" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:ikhan@olemiss.edu">ikhan@olemiss.edu</a>>;
"Stefan Gafner" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:stefan@herbalgram.org">stefan@herbalgram.org</a>>; "Mark Blumenthal" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:Mark@herbalgram.org">Mark@herbalgram.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Okay, so I have to ask, are laws, permits and the authority to levy fines all representative of the best way to protect this resource? If the laws in place
worked as intended, there should be more ginseng in the woods now than when the laws were enacted, correct? Is ginseng more plentiful now? Are the forests in better shape? From what I’m seeing and hearing the answer is “Noâ€.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">A saying widely attributed to Einstein reads “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different resultsâ€seems pretty appropriate
to me! In my view prohibitions and negative reinforcements seldom result in the results intended. In fact history not only validates this but also points to the fact that the unintended consequences can be far worse than the original problem that the law was
designed to solve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Look, we humans just ain’t all that smart. There are far too many variables in this equation to adequately address this issue with some kind of centrally
planned regulatory framework. I have yet to hear anyone pose the question pertaining to “Why†this poaching (if we call it that) occurs to begin with. Don’t you all think that would be a good place to start? Obviously the approach we’ve used is not
working, are we really that afraid to envision a different solution? If so, we have bigger troubles than ginseng theft on our hands!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Already we live in the most heavily regulated and litigation oriented society that the planet has ever seen. Has crime disappeared yet? I didn’t think
so…….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">According to an article in the Wall Street Journal a few years back, (<a target="_blank" href="http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842">http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842</a>)
Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate in his book "Three Felonies a Day," refers to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits. As ignorance is no excuse in breaking the law, and courts are no longer requiring
proof of intent, these coupled with the growing militarization of law enforcement in the US, especially in rural areas, makes for a dangerous threat to our Constitution and Bill of Rights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">As this is being written, throughout the nation’s parklands and forests, the documented widespread use of surveillance equipment has eroded Fourth Amendment
provisions for the personal privacy of those simply trying to enjoy the outdoors. Before we think about any new law, regulation or policy, we must consider the bleak dystopia so vividly presented by Orwell and ask: “Is this the world in which I want to live�
Plainly it is not the world our founders envisioned for this country!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">- Robin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Roy Upton <br>
Sent: Jan 14, 2014 6:54 PM <br>
To: Edward Fletcher <br>
Cc: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>, 'Ikhlas Khan' , 'Stefan Gafner' , 'Mark Blumenthal'
<br>
Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program <br>
<br>
Then it sounds relatively easy to enforce. Fine for all illegally sourced root and that will discourage the practice. Unfortunately, it would likely require whistle blowing to the county or state. I would not want to do it; the consequences for individuals
and families is pretty big; so not sure how one goes about addressing such things without third-party enforcement for the State itself.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Roy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On Jan 14, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Edward Fletcher wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">Hello Roy,</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">Documenting by the dealers is a little different in each state, but at the least the dealer has to document from whom they buy the ginseng from, the date of purchase,
the condition dry or fresh, the weight, the state and county where it was harvested. In North Carolina we have to also see their Drivers License and write their number down along with their address and ask for a phone number. So there is a very well documented
paper trail for all purchases.</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200">I agree there are rules in place and these need to be enforced & punished on the law breakers so those who harvest legally are not unduly punished.
</span></b></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#008200"><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Genuinely,</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Edward J. Fletcher </span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Strategic Sourcing, Inc.</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Botanical Division, C.O.O.</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">828.898.7642</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho"">Fax.898.7647</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho""><a target="_blank" href="mailto:Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</a></span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"MS Mincho""><a target="_blank" href="http://www.StrategicSourcingInc.net/">www.StrategicSourcingInc.net</a></span></em></span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:herbal@got.net">herbal@got.net</a>" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:herbal@got.net">herbal@got.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 1/12/2014 9:36 PM <br>
<b>To:</b> "Edward Fletcher" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> "Jeanine Davis" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:jeanine_davis@ncsu.edu">jeanine_davis@ncsu.edu</a>>; "Ikhlas Khan" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:ikhan@olemiss.edu">ikhan@olemiss.edu</a>>; "Mark Blumenthal" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:Mark@herbalgram.org">Mark@herbalgram.org</a>>;
"Stefan Gafner" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:stefan@herbalgram.org">stefan@herbalgram.org</a>>; "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Hi All,<br>
<br>
Just thought I would add a few thoughts. As a number of folks have <br>
said, this film captures only a part of the wildcrafting story. <br>
Unfortunately,I do think it reflects a real part of the wildcrafting <br>
community, albeit not the whole wildcrafting community. The fact that <br>
the few gents shown represent a big part of the total tonnage of Amer <br>
ginseng that is collected is something worthy of acknowledging. That <br>
individual wildcrafters, such as the gent poaching on federal lands <br>
and the others on private property are trying to put food on their <br>
table and simply not caring about the environment or propriety of <br>
doing it in a sustainable way. The brokers and dealers also reflect a <br>
desire to "get every bit of it that is out there", put competitors out <br>
of business, and simply get their piece of the pie with no <br>
consciousness or caring. Cape cod fishermen are the same; they <br>
basically say they want to get what they can while they can and that <br>
is about it. This puts those wanting to do it the right way at a <br>
disadvantage, artificially drives costs up or down, and undermines <br>
efforts to promote a consciousness of sustainability. To me, for <br>
threatened species there should be a paper trail required for all <br>
those brokers, how much they got from who,e and document that all <br>
material harvested was done legally. The "disabled" guy clearly should <br>
be penalized just with the evidence this documentary provides; that he <br>
is probably collecting some type of disability while he has the <br>
ability to trek all over the Appalacians and his clear knowledge that <br>
he is doing it illegally. Unfortunately, all the education in the <br>
world will not stop folks like him from getting what they can, when <br>
they can, and however they can and threaten the entire tradition of <br>
wildcrafting. The only solution is to go after those types with <br>
penalties and also focus on the brokers of illegally obtained <br>
material. I expect documenting sources either is not part of the <br>
ginseng requirements for brokers or it is simply not enforced.<br>
<br>
I am looking forward to the second segment, more hoping that the gent <br>
will be caught (never thought I would say something like that about a <br>
wildcrafter) and that there would be something good would come by <br>
deterring inappropriate non-sustainable practices.<br>
<br>
Roy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun Jan 12 18:12:13 2014, Edward Fletcher <br>
<<a target="_blank" href="mailto:efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> This show sensationalizes the fringe element of the ginseng industry, NOT<br>
> the true 'wild crafters' and long heritage of one of our American botanical<br>
> treasures. But then why would 'they' want to make a show that depicts lawful<br>
> and ethical people who are just trying to put shoes on their children's feet<br>
> and food on the table....<br>
><br>
> Just as Russ, I was shocked that they showed Actaea pachypoda and called it<br>
> 'black cohosh'. This shows just how deep and thorough they researched their<br>
> subject matter before filming! How can we make them retract and/or correct<br>
> this possibly dangerous flagrant inaccuracy.<br>
><br>
> Genuinely,<br>
> Edward J. Fletcher<br>
> Strategic Sourcing, Inc.<br>
> Botanical Division, C.O.O.<br>
> 828.898.7642<br>
> Fax.898.7647<br>
> <a target="_blank" href="mailto:Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</a><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.StrategicSourcingInc.net/">www.StrategicSourcingInc.net</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: "MPWG" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a>><br>
> Sent: 1/10/2014 4:47 PM<br>
> To: "Jeanine Davis" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a>><br>
> Cc: "Ikhlas Khan" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:ikhan@olemiss.edu">ikhan@olemiss.edu</a>>; "Mark Blumenthal"<br>
> <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:Mark@herbalgram.org">Mark@herbalgram.org</a>>; "Stefan Gafner" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:stefan@herbalgram.org">stefan@herbalgram.org</a>>;<br>
> "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</a>" <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Very sobering. Like the fishermen in Cape Cod. No regard for the future, for<br>
> the land, or for anything other than an instant buck. Very sad.--Roy<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Jan 10, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Jeanine Davis wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This is all so frustrating. And it is discouraging forest landowners from<br>
> planting wild-simulated ginseng because they are afraid with all this<br>
> publicity it is in even greater danger of being poached. Jeanine<br>
><br>
> Jeanine M. Davis, Ph.D.<br>
> Associate Professor and Extension Specialist<br>
> Dept. of Horticultural Science, NC State University<br>
> Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a> <<a target="_blank" href="x-msg://157/Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu%20">x-msg://157/Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu%20</a>><br>
> Websites: <a target="_blank" href="http://ncherb.org/">http://ncherb.org</a> <<a target="_blank" href="http://ncherb.org/">http://ncherb.org/</a>><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://ncspecialtycrops.org/">http://ncspecialtycrops.org</a> <<a target="_blank" href="http://ncspecialtycrops.org/">http://ncspecialtycrops.org/</a>><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://ncorganic.org/">http://ncorganic.org</a> <<a target="_blank" href="http://ncorganic.org/">http://ncorganic.org/</a>><br>
> Blog: <a target="_blank" href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/">
http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com</a><br>
> <<a target="_blank" href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/">http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/</a>><br>
> Twitter: <a target="_blank" href="http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU">http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU</a><br>
> Facebook: <<a target="_blank" href="http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228">http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228</a>><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228">
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228</a><br>
> Address: Mtn. Hort. Crops Research & Extension Center<br>
> 455 Research Drive, Mills River, NC 28759<br>
> Phone: 828-684-3562 FAX: 828-684-8715<br>
><br>
> From: MPWG [<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
> Susan Leopold<br>
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 10:47 AM<br>
> To: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:ForestRuss@aol.com">ForestRuss@aol.com</a><br>
> Cc: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program<br>
><br>
> Thank you Russ for pointing out the information of wrong identification,<br>
> which sets the stage for the show and possibly more of its kind in the<br>
> works. I personally think it is horrific to have a ginseng show that<br>
> glorifies poaching and all the illegal activity that took place in this show<br>
> to continue with no consequences. If is was a show about poaching a<br>
> protected animal I wonder how the public would react?<br>
><br>
> I think this quote from the main ginseng dealers sums up how plants are<br>
> perceived.. see quote and link below.<br>
><br>
> UpS has released a formal press release warning the History Channel about<br>
> the dangers of promoting poaching of a threatened species...<br>
><br>
> "its a protected species, but I don't know why. Its a plant'<br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.register-herald.com/local/x1956140531/New-reality-show-focuses-on">
http://www.register-herald.com/local/x1956140531/New-reality-show-focuses-on</a><br>
> -state-ginseng-business<br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/25/new-reality-show-focuses-on-west-v">
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/25/new-reality-show-focuses-on-west-v</a><br>
> irginia-ginseng-business/<br>
><br>
> On Jan 10, 2014, at 10:19 AM, <a target="_blank" href="mailto:ForestRuss@aol.com">
ForestRuss@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> MPWG:<br>
><br>
> A new program had its debut on History Channel yesterday 01/09/14 called<br>
> "Appalachian Outlaws.<br>
><br>
> The program appears to be more about the being a ginseng poacher than almost<br>
> anything else and I am uncertain how it could impact ginseng<br>
> growers...beyond making theft a thrill game.<br>
><br>
> One concern I have as a long time grower of black Cohosh in a forest setting<br>
> is that one of the poachers already has identified "dolls eye", Actaea<br>
> pachypoda, as black Cohosh, a very incorrect ID. They made a point of<br>
> showing the fruit and the foliage.<br>
><br>
> As a grower of the medicinal black Cohosh plant I think that in 2014 black<br>
> Cohosh root buyers might have to be more vigilant in vetting their purchases<br>
> to make sure they aren't getting poison.<br>
><br>
> I would appreciate other peoples' thoughts or comments on the program<br>
><br>
> Sincerely,<br>
><br>
> Russ Richardson, Certified Forester<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group mailing list<br>
> <a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva">
http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva</a><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://tion.org">tion.org</a><br>
><br>
> To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to <a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org">
MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
> with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.<br>
><br>
> Disclaimer<br>
> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc.<br>
> reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The<br>
> information contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a<br>
> substitute for professional medical advice relative to your specific medical<br>
> condition or question. All medical and other healthcare information that is<br>
> discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader<br>
> and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any<br>
> official opinions or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group mailing list<br>
> <a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva">
http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva</a><br>
> <a target="_blank" href="http://tion.org">tion.org</a><br>
><br>
> To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to <a target="_blank" href="mailto:MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org">
MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
> with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.<br>
><br>
> Disclaimer<br>
> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc.<br>
> reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The<br>
> information contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a<br>
> substitute for professional medical advice relative to your specific medical<br>
> condition or question. All medical and other healthcare information that is<br>
> discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader<br>
> and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any<br>
> official opinions or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre><span style="color:black">“Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.†<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Robin Alton Suggs<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">MoonBranch Botanicals<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">5294 Yellow Creek Road<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Robbinsville, North Carolina 28771 <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">USA<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Telephone: 828.479.2788<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:moonbranch@earthlink.net">moonbranch@earthlink.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Websites:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.moonbranch.com">www.moonbranch.com</a> & <a target="_blank" href="http://www.localharvest.org/store/M16074">www.localharvest.org/store/M16074</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Member:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project; Farm Partner<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Green Products Alliance <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">North Carolina Consortium on Natural Medicines <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">North Carolina Goodness Grows/NCDA&CS <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">United Plant Savers<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">- Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state becomes lawless or corrupt.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">- Mahatma Gandhi<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">- Henry David Thoreau<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">- Samuel Adams<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>“Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.” <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Robin Alton Suggs<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>MoonBranch Botanicals<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>5294 Yellow Creek Road<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Robbinsville, North Carolina 28771 <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>USA<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Telephone: 828.479.2788<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:moonbranch@earthlink.net">moonbranch@earthlink.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Websites:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a target="_blank" href="http://www.moonbranch.com">www.moonbranch.com</a> & <a target="_blank" href="http://www.localharvest.org/store/M16074">www.localharvest.org/store/M16074</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Member:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project; Farm Partner<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Green Products Alliance <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>North Carolina Consortium on Natural Medicines <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>North Carolina Goodness Grows/NCDA&CS <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>United Plant Savers<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state becomes lawless or corrupt.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Mahatma Gandhi<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Henry David Thoreau<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Samuel Adams<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</mark@herbalgram.org></stefan@herbalgram.org></mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org></ikhan@olemiss.edu></herbal@got.net></efletcher@strategicsourcinginc.net></moonbranch@earthlink.net></rlb14@cornell.edu></blockquote></body><pre>
“Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.”
Robin Alton Suggs
MoonBranch Botanicals
5294 Yellow Creek Road
Robbinsville, North Carolina 28771
USA
Telephone: 828.479.2788
Email: moonbranch@earthlink.net
Websites:
www.moonbranch.com & www.localharvest.org/store/M16074
Member:
Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project; Farm Partner
Green Products Alliance
North Carolina Consortium on Natural Medicines
North Carolina Goodness Grows/NCDA&CS
United Plant Savers
One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
- Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.
Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state becomes lawless or corrupt.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.
- Henry David Thoreau
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.
- Samuel Adams
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