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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program</TITLE>
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<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho">Robin,</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4 face="MS Mincho">Glad you decided to
chime in. </FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4 face="MS Mincho">Points well taken
and realized/considered.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4 face="MS Mincho">Now what are your
solutions?</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"><BR>Genuinely,<BR>Edward J. Fletcher
<BR>Strategic Sourcing, Inc.<BR>Botanical Division,
C.O.O.<BR>828.898.7642<BR>Fax.898.7647<BR><A
href="mailto:Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net">Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.StrategicSourcingInc.net">www.StrategicSourcingInc.net</A><BR></FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
"MoonBranch Botanicals" <moonbranch@earthlink.net> <BR><B>Sent:</B>
1/14/2014 8:35 PM <BR><B>To:</B> "Roy Upton" <herbal@got.net>; "Edward
Fletcher" <efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net> <BR><B>Cc:</B>
"mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" <mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org>;
"Ikhlas Khan" <ikhan@olemiss.edu>; "Stefan Gafner"
<stefan@herbalgram.org>; "Mark Blumenthal" <Mark@herbalgram.org>
<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program
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<P class=MsoNormal>Okay, so I have to ask, are laws, permits and the authority
to levy fines all representative of the best way to protect this resource? If
the laws in place worked as intended, there should be more ginseng in the
woods now than when the laws were enacted, correct? Is ginseng more plentiful
now? Are the forests in better shape? From what I’m seeing and hearing the
answer is “No”.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>A saying widely attributed to Einstein reads “Insanity:
doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
results”seems pretty appropriate to me! In my view prohibitions and negative
reinforcements seldom result in the results intended. In fact history not only
validates this but also points to the fact that the unintended consequences
can be far worse than the original problem that the law was designed to
solve.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Look, we humans just ain’t all that smart. There are far
too many variables in this equation to adequately address this issue with some
kind of centrally planned regulatory framework. I have yet to hear anyone pose
the question pertaining to “Why” this poaching (if we call it that) occurs
to begin with. Don’t you all think that would be a good place to start?
Obviously the approach we’ve used is not working, are we really that afraid
to envision a different solution? If so, we have bigger troubles than ginseng
theft on our hands!</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Already we live in the most heavily regulated and
litigation oriented society that the planet has ever seen. Has crime
disappeared yet? I didn’t think so…….</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>According to an article in the Wall Street Journal a few
years back, (<A
href="http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842">http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842</A>)
Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate in his book "Three Felonies a
Day," refers to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now
unwittingly commits. As ignorance is no excuse in breaking the law, and courts
are no longer requiring proof of intent, these coupled with the growing
militarization of law enforcement in the US, especially in rural areas, makes
for a dangerous threat to our Constitution and Bill of Rights.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>As this is being written, throughout the nation’s
parklands and forests, the documented widespread use of surveillance equipment
has eroded Fourth Amendment provisions for the personal privacy of those
simply trying to enjoy the outdoors. Before we think about any new law,
regulation or policy, we must consider the bleak dystopia so vividly presented
by Orwell and ask: “Is this the world in which I want to live”? Plainly it
is not the world our founders envisioned for this country!</P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px">-----Original
Message----- <BR>From: Roy Upton <HERBAL@GOT.NET><BR>Sent: Jan 14, 2014 6:54
PM <BR>To: Edward Fletcher <EFLETCHER@STRATEGICSOURCINGINC.NET><BR>Cc:
mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org, 'Ikhlas Khan' <IKHAN@OLEMISS.EDU>, 'Stefan
Gafner' <STEFAN@HERBALGRAM.ORG>, 'Mark Blumenthal'
<MARK@HERBALGRAM.ORG><BR>Subject: Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program
<BR><BR><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD></ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Then
it sounds relatively easy to enforce. Fine for all illegally sourced root
and that will discourage the practice. Unfortunately, it would likely
require whistle blowing to the county or state. I would not want to do it;
the consequences for individuals and families is pretty big; so not sure how
one goes about addressing such things without third-party enforcement for
the State itself.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Roy<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jan 14, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Edward Fletcher wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4 face="MS Mincho">Hello
Roy,</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4 face="MS Mincho">Documenting
by the dealers is a little different in each state, but at the least the
dealer has to document from whom they buy the ginseng from, the date of
purchase, the condition dry or fresh, the weight, the state and county
where it was harvested. In North Carolina we have to also see their
Drivers License and write their number down along with their address and
ask for a phone number. So there is a very well documented paper trail for
all purchases.</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4 face="MS Mincho">I agree there
are rules in place and these need to be enforced & punished on the law
breakers so those who harvest legally are not unduly punished.
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#008200 size=4
face="MS Mincho"><BR>Genuinely,<BR>Edward J. Fletcher
<BR>Strategic Sourcing, Inc.<BR>Botanical Division,
C.O.O.<BR>828.898.7642<BR>Fax.898.7647<BR><A
href="mailto:Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net"
target=_blank>Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.StrategicSourcingInc.net/"
target=_blank>www.StrategicSourcingInc.net</A><BR></FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
"<A href="mailto:herbal@got.net" target=_blank>herbal@got.net</A>"
<<A href="mailto:herbal@got.net" target=_blank>herbal@got.net</A>>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> 1/12/2014 9:36 PM <BR><B>To:</B> "Edward Fletcher"
<<A href="mailto:efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net"
target=_blank>efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</A>> <BR><B>Cc:</B>
"Jeanine Davis" <<A href="mailto:jeanine_davis@ncsu.edu"
target=_blank>jeanine_davis@ncsu.edu</A>>; "Ikhlas Khan" <<A
href="mailto:ikhan@olemiss.edu" target=_blank>ikhan@olemiss.edu</A>>;
"Mark Blumenthal" <<A href="mailto:Mark@herbalgram.org"
target=_blank>Mark@herbalgram.org</A>>; "Stefan Gafner" <<A
href="mailto:stefan@herbalgram.org"
target=_blank>stefan@herbalgram.org</A>>; "<A
href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>" <<A
href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>>
<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program
<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR></DIV><ZZZ!-- --="" format="" plain="" text=""
from="" converted="">
<P><FONT size=2>Hi All,<BR><BR>Just thought I would add a few thoughts.
As a number of folks have <BR>said, this film captures only a part
of the wildcrafting story. <BR>Unfortunately,I do think it reflects
a real part of the wildcrafting <BR>community, albeit not the whole
wildcrafting community. The fact that <BR>the few gents shown
represent a big part of the total tonnage of Amer <BR>ginseng that
is collected is something worthy of acknowledging.
That <BR>individual wildcrafters, such as the gent poaching on
federal lands <BR>and the others on private property are trying to
put food on their <BR>table and simply not caring about the
environment or propriety of <BR>doing it in a sustainable way. The
brokers and dealers also reflect a <BR>desire to "get every bit of
it that is out there", put competitors out <BR>of business, and
simply get their piece of the pie with no <BR>consciousness or
caring. Cape cod fishermen are the same; they <BR>basically say
they want to get what they can while they can and that <BR>is about
it. This puts those wanting to do it the right way at
a <BR>disadvantage, artificially drives costs up or down, and
undermines <BR>efforts to promote a consciousness of
sustainability. To me, for <BR>threatened species there should be a
paper trail required for all <BR>those brokers, how much they got
from who,e and document that all <BR>material harvested was done
legally. The "disabled" guy clearly should <BR>be penalized just
with the evidence this documentary provides; that he <BR>is
probably collecting some type of disability while he has
the <BR>ability to trek all over the Appalacians and his clear
knowledge that <BR>he is doing it illegally. Unfortunately, all the
education in the <BR>world will not stop folks like him from
getting what they can, when <BR>they can, and however they can and
threaten the entire tradition of <BR>wildcrafting. The only
solution is to go after those types with <BR>penalties and also
focus on the brokers of illegally obtained <BR>material. I expect
documenting sources either is not part of the <BR>ginseng
requirements for brokers or it is simply not enforced.<BR><BR>I am
looking forward to the second segment, more hoping that the
gent <BR>will be caught (never thought I would say something like
that about a <BR>wildcrafter) and that there would be something
good would come by <BR>deterring inappropriate non-sustainable
practices.<BR><BR>Roy<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On Sun Jan 12
18:12:13 2014, Edward Fletcher <BR><<A
href="mailto:efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net"
target=_blank>efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR>> This show sensationalizes the fringe element of the
ginseng industry, NOT<BR>> the true 'wild crafters' and long heritage
of one of our American botanical<BR>> treasures. But then why would
'they' want to make a show that depicts lawful<BR>> and ethical
people who are just trying to put shoes on their children's feet<BR>>
and food on the table....<BR>><BR>> Just as Russ, I was shocked
that they showed Actaea pachypoda and called it<BR>> 'black cohosh'.
This shows just how deep and thorough they researched their<BR>>
subject matter before filming! How can we make them retract and/or
correct<BR>> this possibly dangerous flagrant
inaccuracy.<BR>><BR>> Genuinely,<BR>> Edward J.
Fletcher<BR>> Strategic Sourcing, Inc.<BR>> Botanical Division,
C.O.O.<BR>> 828.898.7642<BR>> Fax.898.7647<BR>> <A
href="mailto:Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net"
target=_blank>Efletcher@StrategicSourcingInc.net</A><BR>> <A
href="http://www.StrategicSourcingInc.net/"
target=_blank>www.StrategicSourcingInc.net</A><BR>><BR>><BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: "MPWG" <<A
href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A>><BR>>
Sent: 1/10/2014 4:47 PM<BR>> To: "Jeanine Davis" <<A
href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu"
target=_blank>Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</A>><BR>> Cc: "Ikhlas Khan"
<<A href="mailto:ikhan@olemiss.edu"
target=_blank>ikhan@olemiss.edu</A>>; "Mark Blumenthal"<BR>>
<<A href="mailto:Mark@herbalgram.org"
target=_blank>Mark@herbalgram.org</A>>; "Stefan Gafner" <<A
href="mailto:stefan@herbalgram.org"
target=_blank>stefan@herbalgram.org</A>>;<BR>> "<A
href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A>" <<A
href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A>><BR>> Subject:
Re: [MPWG] ginseng poaching program<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Very
sobering. Like the fishermen in Cape Cod. No regard for the future,
for<BR>> the land, or for anything other than an instant buck. Very
sad.--Roy<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Jan 10, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Jeanine
Davis wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> This is all so frustrating.
And it is discouraging forest landowners from<BR>> planting
wild-simulated ginseng because they are afraid with all this<BR>>
publicity it is in even greater danger of being poached.
Jeanine<BR>><BR>> Jeanine M. Davis, Ph.D.<BR>> Associate
Professor and Extension Specialist<BR>> Dept. of Horticultural
Science, NC State University<BR>> Email: <A
href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu"
target=_blank>Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</A> <<A
href="x-msg://157/Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu%20"
target=_blank>x-msg://157/Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu%20</A>><BR>>
Websites: <A href="http://ncherb.org/"
target=_blank>http://ncherb.org</A> <<A href="http://ncherb.org/"
target=_blank>http://ncherb.org/</A>><BR>> <A
href="http://ncspecialtycrops.org/"
target=_blank>http://ncspecialtycrops.org</A> <<A
href="http://ncspecialtycrops.org/"
target=_blank>http://ncspecialtycrops.org/</A>><BR>> <A
href="http://ncorganic.org/" target=_blank>http://ncorganic.org</A>
<<A href="http://ncorganic.org/"
target=_blank>http://ncorganic.org/</A>><BR>> Blog: <A
href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/"
target=_blank>http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com</A><BR>>
<<A href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/"
target=_blank>http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/</A>><BR>>
Twitter: <A href="http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU"
target=_blank>http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU</A><BR>> Facebook:
<<A href="http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228"
target=_blank>http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228</A>><BR>>
<A href="http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228"
target=_blank>http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228</A><BR>>
Address: Mtn. Hort. Crops Research & Extension Center<BR>> 455
Research Drive, Mills River, NC 28759<BR>> Phone:
828-684-3562 FAX: 828-684-8715<BR>><BR>> From:
MPWG [<A href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A>] On
Behalf Of<BR>> Susan Leopold<BR>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014
10:47 AM<BR>> To: <A href="mailto:ForestRuss@aol.com"
target=_blank>ForestRuss@aol.com</A><BR>> Cc: <A
href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR>> Subject: Re:
[MPWG] ginseng poaching program<BR>><BR>> Thank you Russ for
pointing out the information of wrong identification,<BR>> which sets
the stage for the show and possibly more of its kind in the<BR>>
works. I personally think it is horrific to have a ginseng show
that<BR>> glorifies poaching and all the illegal activity that took
place in this show<BR>> to continue with no consequences. If is
was a show about poaching a<BR>> protected animal I wonder how the
public would react?<BR>><BR>> I think this quote from the main
ginseng dealers sums up how plants are<BR>> perceived.. see quote and
link below.<BR>><BR>> UpS has released a formal press release
warning the History Channel about<BR>> the dangers of promoting
poaching of a threatened species...<BR>><BR>> "its a
protected species, but I don't know why. Its a plant'<BR>> <A
href="http://www.register-herald.com/local/x1956140531/New-reality-show-focuses-on"
target=_blank>http://www.register-herald.com/local/x1956140531/New-reality-show-focuses-on</A><BR>>
-state-ginseng-business<BR>> <A
href="http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/25/new-reality-show-focuses-on-west-v"
target=_blank>http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/25/new-reality-show-focuses-on-west-v</A><BR>>
irginia-ginseng-business/<BR>><BR>> On Jan 10, 2014, at 10:19 AM,
<A href="mailto:ForestRuss@aol.com" target=_blank>ForestRuss@aol.com</A>
wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>> MPWG:<BR>><BR>> A new program had
its debut on History Channel yesterday 01/09/14 called<BR>>
"Appalachian Outlaws.<BR>><BR>> The program appears to be more
about the being a ginseng poacher than almost<BR>> anything else and
I am uncertain how it could impact ginseng<BR>> growers...beyond
making theft a thrill game.<BR>><BR>> One concern I have as a long
time grower of black Cohosh in a forest setting<BR>> is that one of
the poachers already has identified "dolls eye", Actaea<BR>>
pachypoda, as black Cohosh, a very incorrect ID. They made a point
of<BR>> showing the fruit and the foliage.<BR>><BR>> As a
grower of the medicinal black Cohosh plant I think that in 2014
black<BR>> Cohosh root buyers might have to be more vigilant in
vetting their purchases<BR>> to make sure they aren't getting
poison.<BR>><BR>> I would appreciate other peoples' thoughts or
comments on the program<BR>><BR>> Sincerely,<BR>><BR>> Russ
Richardson, Certified Forester<BR>><BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> PCA's Medicinal
Plant Working Group mailing list<BR>> <A
href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR>> <A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconserva</A><BR>>
<A href="http://tion.org" target=_blank>tion.org</A><BR>><BR>> To
unsubscribe, send an e-mail to <A
href="mailto:MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR>> with
the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.<BR>><BR>>
Disclaimer<BR>> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or
treatments etc.<BR>> reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who
posts the message. The<BR>> information contained in posts is not
intended nor implied to be a<BR>> substitute for professional medical
advice relative to your specific medical<BR>> condition or question.
All medical and other healthcare information that is<BR>> discussed
on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual
reader<BR>> and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not
reflect any<BR>> official opinions or positions of the Plant
Conservation Alliance.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> PCA's Medicinal
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Disclaimer<BR>> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or
treatments etc.<BR>> reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who
posts the message. The<BR>> information contained in posts is not
intended nor implied to be a<BR>> substitute for professional medical
advice relative to your specific medical<BR>> condition or question.
All medical and other healthcare information that is<BR>> discussed
on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual
reader<BR>> and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not
reflect any<BR>> official opinions or positions of the Plant
Conservation
Alliance.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR></FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV></ZZZ!--></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></ZZZMETA></ZZZMETA></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></MARK@HERBALGRAM.ORG></STEFAN@HERBALGRAM.ORG></IKHAN@OLEMISS.EDU></EFLETCHER@STRATEGICSOURCINGINC.NET></HERBAL@GOT.NET></BLOCKQUOTE>
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“Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.”
Robin Alton Suggs
MoonBranch Botanicals
5294 Yellow Creek Road
Robbinsville, North Carolina 28771
USA
Telephone: 828.479.2788
Email: moonbranch@earthlink.net
Websites:
<A href="http://www.moonbranch.com">www.moonbranch.com</A> & <A href="http://www.localharvest.org/store/M16074">www.localharvest.org/store/M16074</A>
Member:
Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project; Farm Partner
Green Products Alliance
North Carolina Consortium on Natural Medicines
North Carolina Goodness Grows/NCDA&CS
United Plant Savers
One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
- Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.
Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state becomes lawless or corrupt.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.
- Henry David Thoreau
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.
- Samuel Adams
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