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     I have watched too many Powerpoint presentations with pictures of
    "wild ginseng" populations growing next to stone walls on land that
    was obviously plowed fields at one time within the past 100 years. <br>
    <br>
    Lol ^^^ this. <br>
    <br>
    Considering how little we actually know about natural ginseng seed
    dispersal, except for human activity, I believe that humans are the
    prime originator of the populations that we are now trying so hard
    to preserve from humans. 
    <blockquote
cite="mid:3293F668E94C6742AD9C9C6F97C49F8C1E41A77F@CH1PRD0411MB432.namprd04.prod.outlook.com"
      type="cite">
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        <p>As for the CBS news story that precipitated this entire,
          enjoyable and enlightening discussion, (Your welcome
          Patricia!), it seems that Mr. Eidus' "gloom and doom" remark,
          has resulted in a spike in ginseng prices from the Asian
          buyers who take major US TV news stories seriously.</p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Kind of funny given that my most recent random conversation with a
    digger he was saying he's seen more ginseng this year than in the
    last 10 years. <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:3293F668E94C6742AD9C9C6F97C49F8C1E41A77F@CH1PRD0411MB432.namprd04.prod.outlook.com"
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        <p> People listen to and respect Charlie Rose in particular.
           While this may be good in the short run, for dealers like me,
          it is not good at all in the long run for the remaining
          ginseng still growing in the wild. No regulations, not even a
          complete ban of harvest will save these remaining plants from
          poachers and the inevitable black market. It is time to
          recognize that conservation efforts need to focus far more on 
          increasing the supply side of the equation through wild
          simulated plantings then attempting to control harvest. </p>
        <p>Bob</p>
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          <hr tabindex="-1">
          <div id="divRpF359488" style="DIRECTION: ltr"><font
              face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> MPWG
              [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a>] on behalf of
              Jeanine Davis [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a>]<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 13, 2013 9:27 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> 'James McGraw'; 'Michael Schenk'<br>
              <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div class="WordSection1">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">What
                  a great review article! Thanks for sharing, Jim. 
                  Jeanine</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
                    FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Jeanine
                    M. Davis, Ph.D.</span></b><span style="COLOR:
                  #1f497d">
                  <br>
                </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Associate
                    Professor and Extension Specialist</span></b><span
                  style="COLOR: #1f497d">
                  <br>
                </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Dept. of
                    Horticultural Science, NC State University</span></b><span
                  style="COLOR: #1f497d">
                  <br>
                </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
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                    </span></a></span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"><br>
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                  <br>
                </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                    'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: red">Blog:</span></b><span
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                    href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/"
                    target="_blank">http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com<span
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                </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
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                    target="_blank">http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU</a>
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                    target="_blank">
                    http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228</a>
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                </span><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
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                </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
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                  Research & Extension Center</span><span
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                  <br>
                </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
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                  Drive,</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">
                </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                  'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Mills River, NC
                  28759</span><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">
                  <br>
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                    FAX:</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span></b><span
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                  'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">828-684-8715</span><span
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                </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;
                  FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
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                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE:
                          10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span
                        style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                        'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> MPWG
                        [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>James McGraw<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:04
                        AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> Michael Schenk<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng</span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">N</p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
                        'Arial','sans-serif'">ice summary, Michael!  And
                        interesting discussion all around.</span></p>
                  </div>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
                          'Arial','sans-serif'"></span> </p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
                          'Arial','sans-serif'">In case anyone hasn't
                          seen our review paper, it is attached.  Feel
                          free to disperse far and wide...</span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
                          'Arial','sans-serif'">Best wishes, Jim McGraw</span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
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                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:19 PM,
                      Michael Schenk <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net"
                        target="_blank">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a>>
                      wrote:</p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">While we might argue about
                        details and dates of extinction (hey, what do
                        you expect from tv?), wild ginseng is definitely
                        heavily threatened, by a synergy of factors.<br>
                        <br>
                        "Poaching". There are gray areas here, where
                        traditional harvesting might cross a paper
                        border, but there are clear signs that the
                        nature of ginseng harvesting has changed. Here's
                        one anecdote: a friend who grew up digging sang
                        found a good bed. He harvested from that bed for
                        years, but made the mistake of disclosing it to
                        an in-law with drug issues. The entire bed
                        disappeared. Combine this anecdote with the
                        ongoing recession and the spread of meth and
                        painkiller addiction... So traditional diggers
                        are also stewards, but there's another, newer
                        ethos going on here.<br>
                        <br>
                        Habitat loss. Population's increasing, and an
                        awful lot of people of means want a lawn in the
                        country. Mountaintop removal coal mining buries
                        Appalachian coves in waste; prime ginseng
                        habitat is used as a landfill. Interstate
                        highways just have to be built. I'm sure MPWGers
                        can fill in many other habitat issues.<br>
                        <br>
                        Invasive species. I know we've argued this over
                        in the past, but I've seen with my own eyes how
                        stiltgrass and tearthumb can completely dominate
                        forest edge areas, as well as interior areas.
                        With habitat fragmentation, there's lots more
                        edge, too.<br>
                        <br>
                        Climate change. Another hot button, but it's
                        happening. Plants are especially vulnerable to
                        rapidly changing ecosystems, especially
                        slow-growing plants with modest seed dispersal.
                        Ginseng likes it cool. I've seen it grow best
                        near the foot of a ridge, flushed with rain
                        runoff. As the coves and hollows warm, the
                        cooler zone moves higher towards the peak, plus
                        it gets drier. Eventually, we run out of
                        mountain. Animals and birds can migrate to the
                        next ridge over, but how many of those will be
                        passing ginseng seed?
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Deer. Many populations are out of whack. "Browse
                        lines" are familiar to many or most of us, where
                        there's nothing but thick woody stems below
                        reaching height for a hungry deer. Not only
                        forest-floor plants, but future generations of
                        trees, are disappearing there.<br>
                        <br>
                        These factors make it critical to have protected
                        areas for wild ginseng. Cultivated ginseng isn't
                        the same. Commercial seed sources can be
                        chemically dependent on pesticides after
                        generations of cultivation. I grow wild
                        simulated, but this is indeed simulated, not a
                        distinctive population adapted to a locale over
                        thousands of years (even if wild simulated does
                        sell as "wild"). Ginseng has been shown to
                        develop many isolated, genetically distinct
                        populations. Each time we lose a bed, we could
                        be losing the equivalent of an entire
                        subspecies. <br>
                        <br>
                        These problems are beyond the scope of any
                        single or easy solution, but we definitely need
                        to protect as many wild populations as we can.
                        Even from a commercial viewpoint, this makes
                        sense, to maintain genetic diversity as
                        insurance against blight and inbreeding.
                        Traditional diggers who replant probably do more
                        than anyone in this regard. The government is
                        limited in what steps it can take, but it does
                        have statutory responsibility in National Parks,
                        as well as responsibility for the trade of
                        endangered species per CITES. I've also heard
                        horror stories from private landowner/growers
                        who have had years of work dug up in a day, with
                        very limited legal recourse. Maybe we could use
                        more rights for small growers.<br>
                        <br>
                        What do folks think about instituting isolated,
                        single-population ginseng growing refuges,
                        clearly identified as to source and lineage?
                        (similar to the seed bank Marla proposes on
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://change.org" target="_blank">change.org</a>)
                        This would be an active step beyond the
                        necessary but somewhat passive protection of
                        wild populations. I tend to buy seed from a
                        single grower, but I have mixed some seed from
                        another source.<br>
                        <br>
                        Bob, for some reason I didn't see your letter in
                        your post, the attachment may not have survived
                        the digest format.<br>
                        <br>
                        Mike Schenk<br>
                        <br>
                        PS: Let's not point fingers about the video,
                        after all this is "television journalism" - low
                        info content, short attention span, high drama.
                        'Nuff said <grin>.<br>
                        <br>
                        ><br>
                        >Today's Topics:<br>
                        ><br>
                        > 1. ginseng in the news (Susan Leopold)<br>
                        > 2. Re: ginseng in the news (Colin Donohue)<br>
                        > 3. Re: ginseng in the news (Michael
                        McGuffin)<br>
                        ><br>
                        ><br>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                        ><br>
                        >Message: 1<br>
                        >Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 17:15:39 -0400<br>
                        >From: Susan Leopold <br>
                        >To: mpwg <br>
                        >Subject: [MPWG] ginseng in the news<br>
                        >Message-ID:<br>
                        > <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:5DE76C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org"
                          target="_blank">5DE76C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org</a>><br>
                        >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
                        ><br>
                        >United Plant Savers has started a <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://change.org" target="_blank">change.org</a>
                        letter to bring awareness to our members and the
                        public and to show various agencies that the
                        public cares and supports ginseng conservation
                        efforts....<br>
                        ><br>
                        >Below is a link to the CBS story and to our
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://change.org" target="_blank">
                          change.org</a> letter, also you can go to the
                        UpS website <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.unitedplantsavers.org"
                          target="_blank">
                          www.unitedplantsavers.org</a> for links to
                        several recent news articles and ginseng
                        recently published research.<br>
                        ><br>
                        >Please join this campaign: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://chn.ge/15Eon5H" target="_blank">http://chn.ge/15Eon5H</a><br>
                        ><br>
                        ><br>
                        ><br>
                        ><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57601454/ginseng-poaching-threatens-survival-of-plant-species/"
                          target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57601454/ginseng-poaching-threatens-survival-of-plant-species/</a><br>
                        ><br>
                        >Susan Leopold, PhD<br>
                        >Executive Director, UpS<br>
                        ><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="tel:703-667-0208" target="_blank">703-667-0208</a><br>
                        ><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org"
                          target="_blank">susan@unitedplantsavers.org</a><br>
                        ></p>
                    </div>
                    <pre> </pre>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                      <br>
                      _______________________________________________<br>
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                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
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                      with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.<br>
                      <br>
                      Disclaimer<br>
                      Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis
                      or treatments etc. reflects ONLY the opinion of
                      the individual who posts the message. The
                      information contained in posts is not intended nor
                      implied to be a substitute for professional
                      medical advice relative to your specific medical
                      condition or question. All medical and other
                      healthcare information that is discussed on this
                      list should be carefully reviewed by the
                      individual reader and their qualified healthcare
                      professional. Posts do not reflect any official
                      opinions or positions of the Plant Conservation
                      Alliance.                                        
                                 </p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                    <br clear="all">
                  </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">James B. McGraw</p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Eberly Professor of Biology</p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">
_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconservation.org">http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/mpwg_lists.plantconservation.org</a>

To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org">MPWG-request@lists.plantconservation.org</a> with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.

Disclaimer
Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc. reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The information contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice relative to your specific medical condition or question. All medical and other healthcare information that is discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any official opinions or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.                                                    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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