<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div id="yiv8617406632"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">Thanks to Wendy & Robert for their very useful insights, greatly appreciated.<br><br>The presence of any scientific study suggesting a possible therapeutic application of a natural product such as ginseng with a history of safe use that spans millennia will be seized upon by the public, and by clinical herbal practice, as an opportunity to treat illness with said natural product, because the very act of applying for a grant to perform the research requires that there be sufficient anecdotal, historical, or scientific evidence to justify the investment of government or private funding to perform the research.<br><br>As Wendy discusses below, a level of proof such as that required for approval of a
pharmaceutical drug will never be achieved for a non-patentable product.<br><br>Another question implied in this discussion, had ginseng been patentable, would we now see a much higher level of scientific validation of
ginseng's therapeutic action being promulgated by drug manufacturers as a prelude to development of a costly pharmaceutical drug, such as the studies we now see focusing on resveratrol?<br><br>Thanks to all,<br>Ann Rogers <br><div id="yiv8617406632yui_3_7_2_91_1378992614899_56"><span id="yiv8617406632yui_3_7_2_91_1378992614899_86"><br></span></div><div><br id="yiv8617406632yui_3_7_2_91_1378992614899_58"></div> <div class="yiv8617406632yui_3_7_2_91_1378992614899_60" id="yiv8617406632yui_3_7_2_91_1378992614899_61" style="font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div class="yiv8617406632yui_3_7_2_91_1378992614899_64" style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Wendy Applequist <wendy.applequist@mobot.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> "Wolkow, Robert"
<Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com>; Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu; Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu; amelvin3@verizon.net <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:59 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br> </font> </div> <div class="yiv8617406632y_msg_container"><br>I agree with Dr. Wolkow that the positive studies relating to memory are weak and limited. For that matter, the studies dealing with fatigue and blood sugar are not conclusive, though for the latter, there is also supporting animal research. Strictly speaking, no studies are ever conclusive, but the relatively modest size and number of trials that can
feasibly be conducted for unpatentable products means that one will almost always be left with the question of whether bigger trials might give negative results. <br><br>However, I reject the popular idea that the two words "publication bias" can be used to automatically reject the results of positive trials on botanicals. It's not usually going to be the case that when you see a dozen positive trials, say, two dozen additional trials have been conducted and the negative results buried. This occasionally happens in industry where billions of dollars are at stake (cf. SSRIs), but many trials on natural products are conducted by academics who will publish any results they get, because they really need to show publications if they hope to get further funding. I've seen systematic reviews of at least a couple of botanicals that did make efforts to determine whether there were piles of unpublished studies sitting in drawers and
concluded that there were not. Therefore, if there is a body of published work that would otherwise be sufficient to make us think that a traditional use of a certain botanical might be valid, that body of work should not be rejected out of hand unless there is actual evidence of data suppression. Otherwise, you could run through the entire spectrum of even the best-proven botanicals in the same way, rejecting the results of hundreds of published clinical trials by presuming that thousands of hidden trials might exist somewhere.<br><br>Wendy<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Wolkow, Robert [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com">Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com</a>] <br>Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:05 AM<br>To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a>;
Wendy Applequist; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a>; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:amelvin3@verizon.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:amelvin3@verizon.net">amelvin3@verizon.net</a><br>Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>Subject: RE: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br><br>Ann,<br><br>The use of ginseng as a memory enhancer is close to my doctoral dissertation , I researched and wrote a mastrr's thesis on this very topic and unfortunately in most studies ginseng was no better then placebo. It is also important to keep in mind publishing bias. Negative studies often don't get published. In any event the weight of published evidence indicated ginseng does not improve memory. If you have tried to treat dementia
patients with anything it remains a huge unmet medical need.<br><br>Rob Wolkow MD<br><br><br><br>Scent from my Droid Smartfon wit glow bull voice wreck
ignition soft Where?<br><br>Peas 4 give n e spelling or gramatickle miss steaks<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>?<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>;::,,<br><br><br>o<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Ann M Rogers [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:amelvin3@verizon.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:amelvin3@verizon.net">amelvin3@verizon.net</a>]<br>Received: Wednesday, 11 Sep 2013, 10:01pm<br>To: Jeanine Davis [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a>]; 'Wendy Applequist' [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:wendy.applequist@mobot.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:wendy.applequist@mobot.org">wendy.applequist@mobot.org</a>]; Wolkow, Robert [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com">Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com</a>]; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu"
target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a>]<br>CC: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>]<br>Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br><br>Greetings,<br><br>Typing the word "ginseng" in the search box of the National Institutes of Health's Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine database (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/241/) just yielded 3,084 search results.<br><br>Here's an example of the "ginseng" search results --><br><br>Effects of American ginseng
(Panax quinquefolius) on neurocognitive function: an acute, randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2952762/">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2952762/</a>><br><br>The study referenced above concludes, "This preliminary study has identified robust working memory enhancement following administration of American ginseng. These effects are distinct from those of Asian ginseng and suggest that psychopharmacological properties depend critically on ginsenoside profiles. These results have ramifications for the psychopharmacology of herbal extracts and merit further study using different dosing regimens and in populations where cognition is fragile."<br><br>That's just one article among 3,084. An assertion to the effect that ginseng's therapeutic effect is "no better than placebo" would appear to have overlooked much of the wonderful
research that we now can access through the miracle of the internet.<br><br>Regards,<br>Ann Rogers<br><br><br><br>________________________________<br>From: Jeanine Davis <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a>><br>To: 'Wendy Applequist' <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:wendy.applequist@mobot.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:wendy.applequist@mobot.org">wendy.applequist@mobot.org</a>>; "'Wolkow, Robert'" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com">Robert.Wolkow@pfizer.com</a>>; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a><br>Cc: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><br>Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:10 PM<br>Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br><br>Liz,<br>I am a horticulturist, so not qualified to address this medical angle on this. I suggest in addition to Dr. Wolkow, that you talk with Mark Blumenthal at the American Botanical Council in Texas.
I believe they published an article on ginseng efficacy in their journal a few years back, I just don't have time to track it down now.<br><br>Jeanine<br><br>Jeanine M. Davis, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor and Extension Specialist Dept. of Horticultural Science, NC State University<br>Email: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu">Jeanine_Davis@ncsu.edu</a>><br>Websites: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncherb.org/">http://ncherb.org </a> <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncherb.org /">http://ncherb.org /</a>> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncspecialtycrops.org/">http://ncspecialtycrops.org</a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://ncspecialtycrops.org/">http://ncspecialtycrops.org/</a>><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncorganic.org/">http://ncorganic.org </a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncorganic.org/">http://ncorganic.org/</a>><br>Blog: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/">http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com </a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/">http://ncalternativecropsandorganics.blogspot.com/</a>><br>Twitter: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU">http://twitter.com/JeanineNCSU</a><br>Facebook: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228">http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeanine-Davis/1442912228</a><br>Address: Mtn. Hort. Crops Research & Extension Center<br>455 Research Drive, Mills River, NC
28759<br>Phone: 828-684-3562 FAX: 828-684-8715<br><br><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: MPWG <br>> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@l" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@l">mpwg-bounces@l</a><br>> ists.plantconservation.org>] On Behalf Of Wendy Applequist<br>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:47 PM<br>> To: Wolkow, Robert; <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a>><br>> Cc: <br>> <a rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o</a><br>> rg><br>> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 --
ginseng<br>><br>> Dr. Wolkow,<br>><br>> Since placebo-controlled clinical trials of ginseng report benefits<br>including<br>> normalization of blood sugar levels, improvement of fatigue associated<br>with<br>> certain conditions, and reduction of the incidence and duration of <br>> common colds, I think that this statement is too broad to be justified <br>> by the<br>evidence.<br>><br>> Wendy Applequist<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: MPWG <br>> [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@l" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@l">mpwg-bounces@l</a><br>> ists.plantconservation.org>] On Behalf Of Wolkow, Robert<br>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:51 PM<br>> To: <a
rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net">shsa@sasktel.net</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net">shsa@sasktel.net</a>>; <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a>>; <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a>><br>> Cc: <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o</a><br>> rg>; <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a>><br>> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br>><br>> Liz,<br>><br>> As a physician I would be happy to talk with you as the medical <br>> evidence<br>that<br>> ginseng is beneficial indicates it is no better then placebo and so <br>> not<br>robust<br>> enough to be a valid treatment. So I am not sure why it is being grown<br>other<br>> then to make money or perhaps
protect our biodiversity which I see as <br>> the only worthy reason scientifically/medically.<br>><br>> Rob Wolkow MD M.Phil. FAAFP<br>><br>><br>><br>> Scent from my Droid Smartfon wit glow bull voice wreck ignition soft<br>Where?<br>><br>> Peas 4 give n e spelling or gramatickle miss
steaks<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ?<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ;::,,<br>><br>><br>> o<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Elizabeth Ann Blaker <br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu">Elizabeth.Blaker@nau.edu</a>>]<br>> Received: Wednesday, 11 Sep 2013, 4:01pm<br>> To: Connie Kehler [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net">shsa@sasktel.net</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net">shsa@sasktel.net</a>>]; <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a>><br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a>>]<br>> CC: <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o</a><br>> rg> <br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation." target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.</a><br>> org>]; Michael Schenk <br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a>>]<br>> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br>><br>> Hello all,<br>> I am a science/nature writer and have been following this thread with <br>> interest. I am thinking about writing an article about the real issues<br>with<br>> ginseng conservation, setting the record straight.<br>><br>> Several of you have written very interesting
posts on this topic, and <br>> I<br>hope<br>> you won't mind if I contact you individually by e-mail to ask some<br>questions. I<br>> find it both sad and interesting that government policies meant to <br>> protect ginseng are seemingly having the opposite effect - I would <br>> like to talk to anyone who is conducting studies on this.<br>><br>> I would
like to talk to people from as wide a range of perspectives as <br>> possible, including researchers, conservationists, herbalists, <br>> harvesters, wholesalers, and even those who poach.<br>><br>> Please send me e-mail if you would like to talk with me.<br>><br>> My background is in both science and writing -- I have a master's <br>> degree<br>in<br>> Biology and have written articles for magazines, public radio, <br>> websites,<br>and<br>> various university projects.<br>><br>> Thanks,<br>> Liz Blaker<br>> ________________________________<br>> From: MPWG <br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.pl" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.pl">mpwg-bounces@lists.pl</a><br>>
antconservation.org>] on behalf of Connie Kehler <br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net">shsa@sasktel.net</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:shsa@sasktel.net">shsa@sasktel.net</a>>]<br>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 12:41 PM<br>> To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Cc: <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o" target="_blank"
href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o</a><br>> rg>; Michael Schenk<br>> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br>><br>> Very very well put!!!<br>><br>><br>><br>> CHECK US OUT AT <br>>
www.saskherbspice.org<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.saskherbspice.org/">http://www.saskherbspice.org</a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.saskherb/">http://www.saskherb</a><br>> spice.org/>><br>><br>> On 2013-09-11, at 1:33 PM,<br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a>><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:herbalogic@yahoo.com">herbalogic@yahoo.com</a>>> wrote:<br>><br>> Bravo Bob!<br>><br>> Sent from my iPhone<br>><br>> On Sep 8, 2013,
at 7:45 AM, Robert Layton Beyfuss <br>> <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu">rlb14@cornell.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu">rlb14@cornell.edu</a>><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu">rlb14@cornell.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu">rlb14@cornell.edu</a>>>> wrote:<br>><br>><br>> Here is he letter as it was sent out yesterday. My thanks to my friend<br>Scott<br>> Persons for editing!<br>> Dear CBS News,<br>> I was troubled to read and watch the segment you aired the morning of <br>> September 5th regarding North Carolina wild ginseng. It contains <br>> factual errors and shows a bias towards sensationalism
that is disappointing.<br>> Your choice to interview only one dealer, Mr. Eidus, was a poor one, <br>> since<br>he<br>> does not represent the majority of ginseng dealers. Indeed, his <br>> opinion -- that 90% of the wild ginseng he purchases has been poached
<br>> - is certainly<br>not<br>> shared by the majority of other ginseng dealers. His willingness to<br>purchase it<br>> nevertheless is a bad example, which reflects poorly on the industry <br>> in general. His opinion that ginseng will be gone in 10 to 20 years is <br>> pure nonsense, as a simple "fact check" with state or federal <br>> regulatory<br>officials<br>> would have easily revealed. Is it the policy of CBS news to quote <br>> unsubstantiated sources when legitimate sources of information are <br>> readily available?<br>> What is even more troubling is your lending credence to the <br>> proposition<br>that<br>> the major threat to ginseng is posed by poachers.<br>> This erroneous assumption is so often repeated by the media that it is <br>> now widely accepted as fact, but a recent article published in "Science"<br>> magazine by the leading Ginseng Conservation Biologist Professor, <br>> James
McGraw of West Virginia University, states that predation by <br>> white tailed deer is the most serious threat to the species and not poachers.<br>> Most individuals who harvest wild ginseng also replant seeds, thereby <br>> expanding existing populations, often relocating them to areas that <br>> are<br>more<br>> secure from deer or development. I can understand your ignorance <br>> regarding the population dynamics of a wild plant, but published data <br>> by Professor McGraw, as well as other legitimate researchers, suggests <br>> that stewardship of wild populations by harvesters can significantly <br>> increase populations, Ironically, even poachers, such as Mr. Hurley, <br>> sometimes aid<br>in<br>> the preservation and perpetuation of the species (although those who <br>> hunt out of season, take every plant they find, and fail to plant the <br>> berries certainly do not).<br>><br>> Finally, Charlie
Rose's, comment wondering why it is not widely grown, <br>> is<br>a<br>> thoughtful and legitimate query. Unfortunately, cultivated ginseng is <br>> not worth very much and suitable habitat for growing "wild simulated"<br>> ginseng is rare and increasingly threatened by development. Ginseng <br>> populations may recover from poaching events, but they will never <br>> recover from being paved. The fact is that most so called "wild" <br>> ginseng is<br>"grown" by<br>> people who return to the same areas regularly to pick berries and <br>> replant seed as they harvest mature roots.<br>> Ms. Leopold's comments regarding the lack of interest in conservation <br>> are accurate in the sense that it is more "newsworthy" to report the <br>> misdeeds<br>of<br>> a few individuals, while ignoring the real issues that should be<br>addressed.<br>> I am saddened that CBS did such a poor job in reporting this story.<br>>
Sincerely,<br>> Bob Beyfuss<br>> Retired American Ginseng Specialist for Cornell University Cooperative <br>> Extension.<br>> Licensed NY State Ginseng Dealer<br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu">Rlb14@cornell.edu</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu">Rlb14@cornell.edu</a>><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu">Rlb14@cornell.edu</a><m<br>> ailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:Rlb14@cornell.edu">Rlb14@cornell.edu</a>>><br>><br>> 136 Schuessler Lane, Preston Hollow NY 12469<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ________________________________<br>> From: MPWG<br>> [<a rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.pl" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg-bounces@lists.pl">mpwg-bounces@lists.pl</a><br>> antconservation.org><mailto:mpwg- <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bounces@lists.plan" target="_blank" href="mailto:bounces@lists.plan">bounces@lists.plan</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bounces@lists.plan" target="_blank" href="mailto:bounces@lists.plan">bounces@lists.plan</a>><br>> tconservation.org>] on behalf of Michael Schenk <br>> [<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank"
href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a>><mailto:schenkmj<br>> @earthlink.net<mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:schenkmj@earthlink.net">schenkmj@earthlink.net</a>>>]<br>> Sent: Saturday,
September 07, 2013 9:19 PM<br>> To:<br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.o</a><br>> rg><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.or" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantconservation.or">mpwg@lists.plantconservation.or</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantcons" target="_blank" href="mailto:mpwg@lists.plantcons">mpwg@lists.plantcons</a><br>> ervation.or><br>> g<br>> ><br>> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng<br>><br>> While we might argue about details and dates of extinction (hey, what <br>> do you expect from tv?), wild ginseng is definitely
heavily <br>> threatened, by a synergy of factors.<br>><br>> "Poaching". There are gray areas here, where traditional
harvesting <br>> might cross a paper border, but there are clear signs that the nature <br>> of ginseng harvesting has changed. Here's one anecdote: a friend who <br>> grew up digging sang found a good bed. He harvested from that bed for <br>> years, but made the mistake of disclosing it to an in-law with drug <br>> issues. The entire bed disappeared. Combine this anecdote with the <br>> ongoing recession and the spread of meth and painkiller addiction... <br>> So traditional diggers are also stewards, but there's another, newer ethos going on here.<br>><br>> Habitat loss. Population's increasing, and an awful lot of people of <br>> means want a lawn in the country. Mountaintop removal coal mining <br>> buries Appalachian coves in waste; prime ginseng habitat is used as a landfill.<br>> Interstate highways just have to be built. I'm sure MPWGers can fill <br>> in<br>many<br>> other habitat
issues.<br>><br>> Invasive species. I know we've argued this over in the past, but I've <br>> seen with my own eyes how stiltgrass and tearthumb can completely <br>> dominate forest edge areas, as well as interior areas. With habitat <br>> fragmentation, there's lots more edge, too.<br>><br>> Climate change. Another hot button, but it's happening. Plants are<br>especially<br>> vulnerable to rapidly changing ecosystems, especially slow-growing <br>> plants with modest seed dispersal. Ginseng likes it cool.<br>> I've seen it grow best near the foot of a ridge, flushed with rain runoff.<br>As<br>> the coves and hollows warm, the cooler zone moves higher towards the <br>> peak, plus it gets drier. Eventually, we run out of mountain. Animals <br>> and<br>birds<br>> can migrate to the next ridge over, but how many of those will be <br>> passing ginseng seed?<br>><br>> Deer. Many populations are out of whack.
"Browse lines" are familiar <br>> to many or most of us, where there's nothing but thick woody stems <br>> below reaching height for a hungry deer. Not only forest-floor plants, <br>> but<br>future<br>> generations of trees, are disappearing there.<br>><br>> These factors make it critical to have protected areas for wild ginseng.<br>> Cultivated ginseng isn't the same. Commercial seed sources can be <br>> chemically dependent on pesticides after generations of cultivation. I<br>grow<br>> wild simulated, but this is indeed simulated, not a distinctive <br>> population adapted to a locale over thousands of years (even if wild <br>> simulated does<br>sell<br>> as "wild"). Ginseng has been shown to develop many isolated, <br>> genetically distinct populations. Each time we lose a bed, we could be <br>> losing the equivalent of an entire subspecies.<br>><br>> These problems are beyond the scope of any single or
easy solution, <br>> but we definitely need to protect as many wild populations as we can. <br>> Even from a commercial viewpoint, this makes sense, to maintain <br>> genetic diversity as insurance against blight and inbreeding. <br>> Traditional diggers who replant probably do more than anyone in this <br>> regard. The government is limited in what steps it can take, but it <br>> does have statutory responsibility in<br>National<br>> Parks, as well as responsibility for the trade of endangered species <br>> per<br>CITES.<br>> I've also heard horror stories from private landowner/growers who have <br>> had years of work dug up in a day, with very limited legal recourse. <br>> Maybe we could use more rights for small growers.<br>><br>> What do folks think about instituting isolated, single-population <br>> ginseng growing refuges, clearly identified as to source and lineage?<br>> (similar to the seed bank
Marla proposes on<br>> change.org<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://change.org/">http://change.org</a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://change.org/">http://change.org/</a>>>) This would be an <br>> active step beyond the necessary but somewhat passive protection of <br>> wild populations. I tend to buy seed from a single grower, but I have <br>> mixed some seed from another source.<br>><br>> Bob, for some reason I didn't see your letter in your post, the <br>> attachment may not have survived the digest format.<br>><br>> Mike Schenk<br>><br>> PS: Let's not point fingers about the video, after all this is <br>> "television journalism" - low info content, short attention span, high <br>> drama. 'Nuff<br>said<br>> <grin>.<br>><br>> ><br>> >Today's Topics:<br>> ><br>> > 1. ginseng in the news (Susan Leopold) 2. Re: ginseng in the news <br>>
> (Colin Donohue) 3. Re:
ginseng in the news (Michael McGuffin)<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> >-<br>> ><br>> >Message: 1<br>> >Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 17:15:39 -0400<br>> >From: Susan Leopold<br>> >To: mpwg<br>> >Subject: [MPWG] ginseng in the news<br>> >Message-ID:<br>> ><br>> ><5DE76C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-<br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org">A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsave" target="_blank" href="mailto:A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsave">A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsave</a><br>> rs.org><mailto:5DE7<br>> ><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:6C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank"
href="mailto:6C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org">6C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org</a><mailto:6C5A-A9<br>> ><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:55-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:55-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org">55-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB@unitedplantsavers.org</a>>>><br>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> ><br>> >United Plant Savers has started a <br>> >change.org<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://change.org/">http://change.org</a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://change.org/">http://change.org/</a>>> letter<br>> to bring awareness to our members and the public and to show various <br>> agencies that the public cares and supports ginseng conservation<br>efforts....<br>> ><br>> >Below is a link to the CBS story and to our<br>>
change.org<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://change.org/">http://change.org</a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://change.org/">http://change.org/</a>>> letter, also you can <br>> go to the UpS website <br>> www.unitedplantsavers.org<<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.unitedplantsavers.org/">http://www.unitedplantsavers.org</a><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.unitedplantsavers.org/">http://www.unitedplantsavers.org/</a>>> for links to several recent news articles and ginseng recently published research.<br>> ><br>> >Please join this campaign: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://chn.ge/15Eon5H">http://chn.ge/15Eon5H</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57601454/ginseng-poaching-">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57601454/ginseng-poaching-</a><br>> threat<br>> >ens-survival-of-plant-species/<br>> ><br>> >Susan Leopold, PhD<br>> >Executive Director,
UpS<br>> >703-667-0208<br>> ><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org">susan@unitedplantsavers.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org">susan@unitedplantsavers.org</a>><mailt<br>> >o:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org">susan@unitedplantsavers.org</a><mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:susan@unitedplantsavers.org">susan@unitedplantsavers.org</a>>><br>> ><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> PCA's Medicinal Plant Working Group mailing list <br>> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:MPWG@lists.plantconservation.org" target="_blank"
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