[MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng

Wed Sep 11 17:27:29 CDT 2013

I'm all for debate, but would suggest that we probably wont solve this 
issue on this list.

Like Bob said, folks been using it and buying for a fair while.  I 
suspect there will be some market for a fair while.

I doubt Ms Blaker will get too deep into the medicinal benefits in the 
article...

C

BTW, I'm hearing a lot about this new drug, Placebo.  It seems like the 
most cost-effective drug on the market, and not many side-effects...  I 
wonder if I can get the patent rights...

On 9/11/2013 6:19 PM, Robert Layton Beyfuss wrote:
> I find it hard to believe that a "medicine" that is as highly revered as ginseng is and has been by most of the people who live on this planet, for the past 2,000 years is simply a placebo. I am also aware that there is a very large body of carefully performed scientific research demonstrating the efficacy of not just ginseng, but also many other herbal medicines. However, since this research is published in languages other than English, few western researchers know or even care about it. The arrogance of western medical science, funded by for profit pharmaceutical companies, is astonishing. Yet, even the AMA published a study last year, that clearly demonstrated the value of ginseng that was taken by cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy and radiation treatment. Surely, Dr. Wolkow is aware of this, as it was indeed published in English.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: MPWG [mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] on behalf of Wendy Applequist [wendy.applequist at mobot.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:47 PM
> To: Wolkow, Robert; Elizabeth.Blaker at nau.edu
> Cc: mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng
>
> Dr. Wolkow,
>
> Since placebo-controlled clinical trials of ginseng report benefits
> including normalization of blood sugar levels, improvement of fatigue
> associated with certain conditions, and reduction of the incidence and
> duration of common colds, I think that this statement is too broad to be
> justified by the evidence.
>
> Wendy Applequist
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MPWG [mailto:mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] On Behalf
> Of Wolkow, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:51 PM
> To: shsa at sasktel.net; herbalogic at yahoo.com; Elizabeth.Blaker at nau.edu
> Cc: mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org; schenkmj at earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng
>
> Liz,
>
> As a physician I would be happy to talk with you as the medical evidence
> that ginseng is beneficial indicates it is no better then placebo and so
> not robust enough to be a valid treatment. So I am not sure why it is
> being grown other then to make money or perhaps protect our biodiversity
> which I see as the only worthy reason scientifically/medically.
>
> Rob Wolkow MD M.Phil. FAAFP
>
>
>
> Scent from my Droid Smartfon wit glow bull voice wreck ignition soft
> Where?
>
> Peas 4 give n e spelling or gramatickle miss steaks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ;::,,
>
>
> o
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elizabeth Ann Blaker [Elizabeth.Blaker at nau.edu]
> Received: Wednesday, 11 Sep 2013, 4:01pm
> To: Connie Kehler [shsa at sasktel.net]; herbalogic at yahoo.com
> [herbalogic at yahoo.com]
> CC: mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org [mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org];
> Michael Schenk [schenkmj at earthlink.net]
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng
>
> Hello all,
> I am a science/nature writer and have been following this thread with
> interest. I am thinking about writing an article about the real issues
> with ginseng conservation, setting the record straight.
>
> Several of you have written very interesting posts on this topic, and I
> hope you won't mind if I contact you individually by e-mail to ask some
> questions. I find it both sad and interesting that government policies
> meant to protect ginseng are seemingly having the opposite effect - I
> would like to talk to anyone who is conducting studies on this.
>
> I would like to talk to people from as wide a range of perspectives as
> possible, including researchers, conservationists, herbalists,
> harvesters, wholesalers, and even those who poach.
>
> Please send me e-mail if you would like to talk with me.
>
> My background is in both science and writing -- I have a master's degree
> in Biology and have written articles for magazines, public radio,
> websites, and various university projects.
>
> Thanks,
> Liz Blaker
> ________________________________
> From: MPWG [mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org] on behalf of
> Connie Kehler [shsa at sasktel.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 12:41 PM
> To: herbalogic at yahoo.com
> Cc: mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org; Michael Schenk
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng
>
> Very very well put!!!
>
>
>
> CHECK US OUT AT www.saskherbspice.org<http://www.saskherbspice.org>
>
> On 2013-09-11, at 1:33 PM,
> herbalogic at yahoo.com<mailto:herbalogic at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Bravo Bob!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:45 AM, Robert Layton Beyfuss
> <rlb14 at cornell.edu<mailto:rlb14 at cornell.edu>> wrote:
>
>
> Here is he letter as it was sent out yesterday. My thanks to my friend
> Scott Persons for editing!
> Dear CBS News,
> I was troubled to read and watch the segment you aired the morning of
> September 5th regarding North Carolina wild ginseng. It contains factual
> errors and shows a bias towards sensationalism that is disappointing.
> Your choice to interview only one dealer, Mr. Eidus, was a poor one,
> since he does not represent the majority of ginseng dealers. Indeed, his
> opinion -- that 90% of the wild ginseng he purchases has been poached -
> is certainly not shared by the majority of other ginseng dealers. His
> willingness to purchase it nevertheless is a bad example, which reflects
> poorly on the industry in general. His opinion that ginseng will be gone
> in 10 to 20 years is pure nonsense, as a simple "fact check" with state
> or federal regulatory officials would have easily revealed. Is it the
> policy of CBS news to quote unsubstantiated sources when legitimate
> sources of information are readily available?
> What is even more troubling is your lending credence to the proposition
> that the major threat to ginseng is posed by poachers.
> This erroneous assumption is so often repeated by the media that it is
> now widely accepted as fact, but a recent article published in "Science"
> magazine by the leading Ginseng Conservation Biologist Professor, James
> McGraw of West Virginia University, states that predation by white
> tailed deer is the most serious threat to the species and not poachers.
> Most individuals who harvest wild ginseng also replant seeds, thereby
> expanding existing populations, often relocating them to areas that are
> more secure from deer or development. I can understand your ignorance
> regarding the population dynamics of a wild plant, but published data by
> Professor McGraw, as well as other legitimate researchers, suggests that
> stewardship of wild populations by harvesters can significantly increase
> populations, Ironically, even poachers, such as Mr. Hurley, sometimes
> aid in the preservation and perpetuation of the species (although those
> who hunt out of season, take every plant they find, and fail to plant
> the berries certainly do not).
>
> Finally, Charlie Rose's, comment wondering why it is not widely grown,
> is a thoughtful and legitimate query. Unfortunately, cultivated ginseng
> is not worth very much and suitable habitat for growing "wild simulated"
> ginseng is rare and increasingly threatened by development. Ginseng
> populations may recover from poaching events, but they will never
> recover from being paved. The fact is that most so called "wild" ginseng
> is "grown" by people who return to the same areas regularly to pick
> berries and replant seed as they harvest mature roots.
> Ms. Leopold's comments regarding the lack of interest in conservation
> are accurate in the sense that it is more "newsworthy" to report the
> misdeeds of a few individuals, while ignoring the real issues that
> should be addressed.
> I am saddened that CBS did such a poor job in reporting this story.
> Sincerely,
> Bob Beyfuss
> Retired American Ginseng Specialist for Cornell University Cooperative
> Extension.
> Licensed NY State Ginseng Dealer
> Rlb14 at cornell.edu<mailto:Rlb14 at cornell.edu>
>
> 136 Schuessler Lane, Preston Hollow NY 12469
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: MPWG
> [mpwg-bounces at lists.plantconservation.org<mailto:mpwg-bounces at lists.plan
> tconservation.org>] on behalf of Michael Schenk
> [schenkmj at earthlink.net<mailto:schenkmj at earthlink.net>]
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 9:19 PM
> To:
> mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org<mailto:mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org
> Subject: Re: [MPWG] MPWG V1#1 -- ginseng
>
> While we might argue about details and dates of extinction (hey, what do
> you expect from tv?), wild ginseng is definitely heavily threatened, by
> a synergy of factors.
>
> "Poaching". There are gray areas here, where traditional harvesting
> might cross a paper border, but there are clear signs that the nature of
> ginseng harvesting has changed. Here's one anecdote: a friend who grew
> up digging sang found a good bed. He harvested from that bed for years,
> but made the mistake of disclosing it to an in-law with drug issues. The
> entire bed disappeared. Combine this anecdote with the ongoing recession
> and the spread of meth and painkiller addiction... So traditional
> diggers are also stewards, but there's another, newer ethos going on
> here.
>
> Habitat loss. Population's increasing, and an awful lot of people of
> means want a lawn in the country. Mountaintop removal coal mining buries
> Appalachian coves in waste; prime ginseng habitat is used as a landfill.
> Interstate highways just have to be built. I'm sure MPWGers can fill in
> many other habitat issues.
>
> Invasive species. I know we've argued this over in the past, but I've
> seen with my own eyes how stiltgrass and tearthumb can completely
> dominate forest edge areas, as well as interior areas. With habitat
> fragmentation, there's lots more edge, too.
>
> Climate change. Another hot button, but it's happening. Plants are
> especially vulnerable to rapidly changing ecosystems, especially
> slow-growing plants with modest seed dispersal. Ginseng likes it cool.
> I've seen it grow best near the foot of a ridge, flushed with rain
> runoff. As the coves and hollows warm, the cooler zone moves higher
> towards the peak, plus it gets drier. Eventually, we run out of
> mountain. Animals and birds can migrate to the next ridge over, but how
> many of those will be passing ginseng seed?
>
> Deer. Many populations are out of whack. "Browse lines" are familiar to
> many or most of us, where there's nothing but thick woody stems below
> reaching height for a hungry deer. Not only forest-floor plants, but
> future generations of trees, are disappearing there.
>
> These factors make it critical to have protected areas for wild ginseng.
> Cultivated ginseng isn't the same. Commercial seed sources can be
> chemically dependent on pesticides after generations of cultivation. I
> grow wild simulated, but this is indeed simulated, not a distinctive
> population adapted to a locale over thousands of years (even if wild
> simulated does sell as "wild"). Ginseng has been shown to develop many
> isolated, genetically distinct populations. Each time we lose a bed, we
> could be losing the equivalent of an entire subspecies.
>
> These problems are beyond the scope of any single or easy solution, but
> we definitely need to protect as many wild populations as we can. Even
> from a commercial viewpoint, this makes sense, to maintain genetic
> diversity as insurance against blight and inbreeding. Traditional
> diggers who replant probably do more than anyone in this regard. The
> government is limited in what steps it can take, but it does have
> statutory responsibility in National Parks, as well as responsibility
> for the trade of endangered species per CITES. I've also heard horror
> stories from private landowner/growers who have had years of work dug up
> in a day, with very limited legal recourse. Maybe we could use more
> rights for small growers.
>
> What do folks think about instituting isolated, single-population
> ginseng growing refuges, clearly identified as to source and lineage?
> (similar to the seed bank Marla proposes on
> change.org<http://change.org>) This would be an active step beyond the
> 9999necessary but somewhat passive protection of wild populations. I tend to
> buy seed from a single grower, but I have mixed some seed from another
> source.
>
> Bob, for some reason I didn't see your letter in your post, the
> attachment may not have survived the digest format.
>
> Mike Schenk
>
> PS: Let's not point fingers about the video, after all this is
> "television journalism" - low info content, short attention span, high
> drama. 'Nuff said <grin>.
>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. ginseng in the news (Susan Leopold) 2. Re: ginseng in the news
>> (Colin Donohue) 3. Re: ginseng in the news (Michael McGuffin)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 17:15:39 -0400
>> From: Susan Leopold
>> To: mpwg
>> Subject: [MPWG] ginseng in the news
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <5DE76C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB at unitedplantsavers.org<mailto:5DE7
>> 6C5A-A955-4B6D-BCC9-A93B83BEB7CB at unitedplantsavers.org>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> United Plant Savers has started a change.org<http://change.org> letter
> to bring awareness to our members and the public and to show various
> agencies that the public cares and supports ginseng conservation
> efforts....
>> Below is a link to the CBS story and to our
> change.org<http://change.org> letter, also you can go to the UpS website
> www.unitedplantsavers.org<http://www.unitedplantsavers.org> for links to
> several recent news articles and ginseng recently published research.
>> Please join this campaign: http://chn.ge/15Eon5H
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57601454/ginseng-poaching-threat
>> ens-survival-of-plant-species/
>>
>> Susan Leopold, PhD
>> Executive Director, UpS
>> 703-667-0208
>> susan at unitedplantsavers.org<mailto:susan at unitedplantsavers.org>
>>
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> information that is discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed
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> Posts do not reflect any official opinions or positions of the Plant
> Conservation Alliance.
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> reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The
> information contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a
> substitute for professional medical advice relative to your specific
> medical condition or question. All medical and other healthcare
> information that is discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed
> by the individual reader and their qualified healthcare professional.
> Posts do not reflect any official opinions or positions of the Plant
> Conservation Alliance.
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>
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> Disclaimer
> Any advice given on this list regarding diagnosis or treatments etc. reflects ONLY the opinion of the individual who posts the message. The information contained in posts is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice relative to your specific medical condition or question. All medical and other healthcare information that is discussed on this list should be carefully reviewed by the individual reader and their qualified healthcare professional. Posts do not reflect any official opinions or positions of the Plant Conservation Alliance.
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