[MPWG] Organic Comments - Certification, cont'd

Thu Dec 9 00:36:01 CST 2004

'Organic standards really do not address environmental issues'

Very true Fred.

regards
Pankaj Oudhia
http://www.pankajoudhia.com

Center for Sustainable Resources <sustainableresources at hotmail.com> wrote:
Social issues and economic issue are just as important as the idea of 
Walmart selling producs that may insure cleaner water from the farm. From a 
Holistic perspective you don't solve the problem if the root cause is not 
addressed. Standardizing a certiication means killing local markets, 
communities, and eventually the ecosystem suffers because people will eat 
before concern over the environment. This is somewhat general but has been 
echoed in every civilization that has come and gone.
There are a few principles, four to be exact that pertain to environmental 
issue world wide.
Organic certification can not deal with any of that in any real way. It is 
more about redirecting wealth.
Afterall, up until about fifty years ago all farming was organic because the 
chemicals did not exist. More land was destroyed then than now. About two 
years ago I was at Coldgate U with allan savory who spoke there. A man in 
the audience stood up and suggested that the practices of the Amish should 
be followed because of the simple perhaps organic way they do things. 
Allan's response was that the Amish have destroyed just as much land as 
anyone else ,they have just done it a little slower. He is absolutely 
correct.
Organic standards really do not address environmental issues. As Bob pointed 
out it is just another expense dumped on farmers trying to do the right 
thing and redirects markets to mega farms.
If you think you are ultimately going to save natural resources with 
national organic standards , that might be a little dillusional rather than 
transparent.
I can see the same kind of demise with doing such a thing to people who 
produce woodland medicinal plants. The best way remains that of free 
enterprise, market and demand. The customer can get whatever they want 
however they want by simply talking to who grows it. It works on a local 
level and maintains local communities. If people are so far removed from the 
natural world that they can't do that then no amount of certification is 
going to help them in the end. You might do more by simply getting kids off 
of computers and into the woods so that they one day may be able to return a 
culture we all long for to please come back. Fred Hays

>From: Patricia_DeAngelis at fws.gov
>To: mpwg at lists.plantconservation.org
>Subject: [MPWG] Organic Comments - Certification, cont'd
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:00:48 -0500
>
>While the MPWG listserve is not the venue for an all-out organic debate,
>I'm posting the comments below because, in addition to providing more
>insight on the organic issue, it raises some other important issues - the
>flip side of corporate involvement and the fact that there are some
>inherent forces that can't be addressed in the certification process. This
>is an important part of understanding the strengths and weaknesses (and
>therefore, applicability) of the various certification systems.
>
>-Patricia
>
>
>----- Forwarded by Patricia De Angelis/ARL/R9/FWS/DOI on 12/08/2004 12:44
>PM -----
>
> DianeDonCarlos at a
> ol.com To: 
>Patricia_DeAngelis at fws.gov
> cc:
> 12/08/2004 11:12 Subject: Organic Comments
> AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________
>Pesticides and chemicals are still "allowed" in organic processes, but
>reduced largely to EPA Inerts List 1 and 2 prohibited, List 3 prohibited
>and restricted on a case by case basis, List 4 Inerts allowed. Synthetic
>herbicides and pesticides are not allowed (such as Roundup, 2-4-D, etc.).
>As we continue to investigate synthetic products available to determine
>their status as allowed in organic processes, we continue to pierce the
>veils of nondisclosure in the chemical agricultural industry. As an
>inspector, if a product label does not disclose the totality of
>ingredients, (for example a garlic spray labeled 1% garlic and 99% inert) I
>present this info to the certifying agency as "Allowed status unknown." A
>full disclosure label and when applicable the MSDS is required for all
>inputs used. The substance is disallowed for use if the ingredients are
>unknown or not fully disclosed by the manufacturer. This is an important
>move forward for full disclosure and for our health.
>
> Yes, Corporate farms squeeze out the little guy. However this is an
>economic reality that is beneath, above and beyond the organic sector. It
>is the reality of agricultural commodification. And I am as disgusted with
>it as everyone else. When the NOP arrived, it became clear to the corporate
>sector that organics was a market. A real market, not just a subculture
>hippie/yuppie phenomenon, and they jumped on the bandwagon. A mistake
>perhaps. Time will tell. Now we have Tyson Organic Chicken, Organic
>Dorito's and Heinz Organic Ketchup, etc., etc. Will Frito-Lay become an
>advocate for non-gmo corn at some future date because it might now have an
>impact on their organic fields? What does this actually accomplish in the
>larger organic chain? Does this now offer the organic grower who is a
>wholesaler of raw materials (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers and the like)
>broader markets? Does it further squeeze out the small grower? I have
>certainly seen a positive impact for small farmers in the soybean market.
>The small CSA direct-to-market growers decide/chose to be certified or not
>as their markets require. Some have decided their customers don't require
>them to be certified, and are no longer doing so but are still farming
>organically. Others want to expand their markets and so regard
>certification as another cost of doing business. $500 with a 75% rebate is
>not a big expense for most growers.
>
>If large tracks of corporate owned farmland go organic, don't we eventually
>win? Don't we then have less damaging inputs in the water table flowing
>into the rivers and out to the ocean? Don't we get more acreage of non-gmo
>plants? Don't we get less erosion and subsequent loss of topsoil? And
>doesn't the average consumer gain the option of choice and hence the
>opportunity for education? I see organic milk on the shelf at small
>convenience stores now.
>
>And here's a Reality Check. Walmart is the largest buyer of organic
>produce.(I don't know their status as a consumer of packaged herbal
>products but expect that it is BIG) Yikes, yuk we can say. Walmart is not
>the place I want to go to buy my organic produce. However, there is a
>Walmart available in the remotest rural areas of the US where not a single
>person has ever seen an organic tomato and has no clue what that is. Here
>in SE Ohio, home to the National Center for the Preservation of Herbs,
>United Plant Savers, and many CSA's, you still have to drive at least 60
>miles roundtrip to find retailed organic anything..............except for
>Walmart. Because of competition with Walmart my local grocery store now has
>a "natural foods" section. It may well be that in a few years the unhealthy
>diabetic obese poor of Appalachia might begin the process of education
>about healthy whole foods because Walmart has organic carrots, greens,
>dairy, etc., available.
>
>Quite the conundrum.
>
>Diane Don Carlos
>Herbalist, Organic Inspector
>Sweet Farm
>33735 Beech Grove Road
>Rutland, OH 45775
>740-742-1714
>
>
>
>
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