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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lauren and y'all:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Standard smoke and mirrors. Read "Bad Pharma."
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=smith659@indiana.edu href="mailto:smith659@indiana.edu">Lauren
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=landrest@cox.net
href="mailto:landrest@cox.net">Wayne Tyson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:50 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked tohealth dangers:study</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Wayne and all,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This is an excellent point. When the author I mentioned (Rick
Relyea) gave a talk at my university, he explained that standard toxicology
tests generally run for five days (one work week) with animals under
near-ideal conditions. Running tests a little bit longer, or adding
stressors or other interacting factors, could show "sublethal" levels of
certain compounds to in fact be "lethal." Another noteworthy point he
made was that the cited half-life of compounds on labels apply to a particular
set of conditions, so if herbicides are applied under extreme temperatures or
otherwise different conditions, they may remain active in the environment
longer than expected. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Wayne Tyson <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:landrest@cox.net"
target=_blank>landrest@cox.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Lauren and all:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>"Sublethal" is a dangerous word. What is sublethal?
What does it mean? Does it mean that the organisms affected die immediately,
in a few hours or days, or, say, 80 years later? That'll be five
years for me. That'll be 80 years for your newborn. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It is not necessary or desirable to kill all (or 99
percent of) weeds on any restoration project, but a good one will
certainly cut their populations down significantly over the period of a few
years as the restored vegetation becomes more and more mature. Healthy
ecosystems resist invasions and work against weeds, and indigenous plants
and other organisms keep them in check. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>WT</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV class=im>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=smith659@indiana.edu href="mailto:smith659@indiana.edu"
target=_blank>Lauren Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 07, 2013 12:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked tohealth dangers:study</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV dir=ltr>In addition to the sources that Gena sent, you might all be
interested in Rick Relyea's work on non-target effects of Roundup on
amphibians. <A href="http://www.pitt.edu/~relyea/Site/Welcome.html"
target=_blank>http://www.pitt.edu/~relyea/Site/Welcome.html</A> The
Roundup tab has information about one particular study, but he has other
interesting work in his publication list on how sublethal levels of
herbicides can alter interactions amongst predators and prey or
competitors.
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Gena Fleming <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com"
target=_blank>genafleming@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Well,
this is quite a conundrum, isn't it? I guess we'll never know for
sure, but it's an interesting puzzle. The following may or
may not be deemed relevant to the discussion.<BR><BR>This correspondence
by Michael Surgan is a good (and brief) discussion of the problems posed
by the presence of "inert" ingredients in pesticide formulations:<BR>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1281320/#b1-ehp0113-a0657c"
target=_blank>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1281320/#b1-ehp0113-a0657c</A></P><BR>In
his reference section, he cites but does not provide a link to the New
York lawsuit filed against Monsanto, so I will provide it here:<BR><A
href="http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/fraud.pdf"
target=_blank>http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/fraud.pdf</A><BR><BR>Note
that a similar lawsuit against Monsanto's false claim of Roundup being
nontoxic and biodegradable was also successfully pursued in
France.<BR><BR>The article Surgan references by Richard et al. that
explores the toxicity of some of the adjuvants in Roundup formulations
is a worthwhile read; the abstract doesn't take too much time:<BR><A
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257596/"
target=_blank>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257596/</A><BR><BR>Surgan's
link to the EPA Reregistration Eligibility Document on Glyphosate
doesn't work. Here's an EPA fact sheet for that document:<A
href="http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0178fact.pdf"
target=_blank>
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0178fact.pdf</A> <BR>...
with the relevant excerpt being (and bold emphasis is mine):<BR><B><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(153,0,0)"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><BR></B>
<P class=MsoNormal></P>
<P class=MsoNormal></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I>Due to the presence of a <B>toxic inert
ingredient</B>, some glyphosate end-use products must be labeled, "Toxic
to fish," if they may be applied directly to aquatic
environments.</I></P><I></I>
<P></P><SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(51,51,255)"><I><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></SPAN></I><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><SPAN>The fact that the EPA
feels comfortable using terms such as "toxic inert ingredient" is enough
to keep my head in a spin.<BR><BR>best regards,<BR><BR>Gena
Fleming</SPAN></SPAN><I><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></I></SPAN><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Wayne Tyson <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:landrest@cox.net"
target=_blank>landrest@cox.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV><U></U>
<DIV lang=EN-US bgcolor="white" vlink="blue" link="blue">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A <I>possibility,</I> sure, but not a
<I>probability. </I>Certainly the "soils" were disturbed; they were
cut slopes, creating ideal conditions for colonization by weedy
plants. Yes, the "invasives" could have altered soil properties (one
of the ways is soil-building), and in fact, it could have been the
dead invasives that harbored the residues that killed the emerging
native seedlings. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Conjecture can be useful, but useless in
the absence of a stated theoretical foundation or actual evidence.
What is needed is good science that can confirm or reject the
conjectures. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>WT</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>----<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________
<DIV><BR>PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
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target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
opinion of the individual posting the
message.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's
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href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the
opinion of the individual posting the
message.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Lauren Smith<BR>PhD Candidate<BR>Reynolds
Lab<BR>Department of Biology, Indiana University </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P></P>
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<DIV class=im>
<P></P><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's Alien
Plant Working Group mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion
of the individual posting the message. </DIV>
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<DIV class=im>No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR></DIV>Version:
10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3162/5807 - Release Date: 05/07/13
<P></P>
<P></P>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Lauren Smith<BR>PhD Candidate<BR>Reynolds
Lab<BR>Department of Biology, Indiana University </DIV>
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<P class=avgcert align=left color="#000000">No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus
Database: 3184/5864 - Release Date: 05/28/13</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>