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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lauren and all:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Sublethal" is a dangerous word. What is sublethal?
What does it mean? Does it mean that the organisms affected die immediately, in
a few hours or days, or, say, 80 years later? That'll be five years
for me. That'll be 80 years for your newborn. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is not necessary or desirable to kill all (or 99
percent of) weeds on any restoration project, but a good one will certainly
cut their populations down significantly over the period of a few years as the
restored vegetation becomes more and more mature. Healthy ecosystems resist
invasions and work against weeds, and indigenous plants and other organisms keep
them in check. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=smith659@indiana.edu href="mailto:smith659@indiana.edu">Lauren
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 07, 2013 12:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked tohealth dangers:study</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>In addition to the sources that Gena sent, you might all be
interested in Rick Relyea's work on non-target effects of Roundup on
amphibians. <A
href="http://www.pitt.edu/~relyea/Site/Welcome.html">http://www.pitt.edu/~relyea/Site/Welcome.html</A>
The Roundup tab has information about one particular study, but he has
other interesting work in his publication list on how sublethal levels of
herbicides can alter interactions amongst predators and prey or competitors.
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Gena Fleming <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com"
target=_blank>genafleming@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Well,
this is quite a conundrum, isn't it? I guess we'll never know for
sure, but it's an interesting puzzle. The following may or may
not be deemed relevant to the discussion.<BR><BR>This correspondence by
Michael Surgan is a good (and brief) discussion of the problems posed by the
presence of "inert" ingredients in pesticide formulations:<BR>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1281320/#b1-ehp0113-a0657c"
target=_blank>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1281320/#b1-ehp0113-a0657c</A></P><BR>In
his reference section, he cites but does not provide a link to the New York
lawsuit filed against Monsanto, so I will provide it here:<BR><A
href="http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/fraud.pdf"
target=_blank>http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/fraud.pdf</A><BR><BR>Note
that a similar lawsuit against Monsanto's false claim of Roundup being
nontoxic and biodegradable was also successfully pursued in
France.<BR><BR>The article Surgan references by Richard et al. that explores
the toxicity of some of the adjuvants in Roundup formulations is a
worthwhile read; the abstract doesn't take too much time:<BR><A
href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257596/"
target=_blank>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257596/</A><BR><BR>Surgan's
link to the EPA Reregistration Eligibility Document on Glyphosate doesn't
work. Here's an EPA fact sheet for that document:<A
href="http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0178fact.pdf"
target=_blank>
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0178fact.pdf</A> <BR>... with
the relevant excerpt being (and bold emphasis is mine):<BR><B><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(153,0,0)"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><BR></B>
<P class=MsoNormal></P>
<P class=MsoNormal></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><I>Due to the presence of a <B>toxic inert
ingredient</B>, some glyphosate end-use products must be labeled, "Toxic to
fish," if they may be applied directly to aquatic
environments.</I></P><I></I>
<P></P><SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(51,51,255)"><I><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><SPAN><BR></SPAN></SPAN></I><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><SPAN>The fact that the EPA feels
comfortable using terms such as "toxic inert ingredient" is enough to keep
my head in a spin.<BR><BR>best regards,<BR><BR>Gena
Fleming</SPAN></SPAN><I><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></I></SPAN><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=im>On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Wayne Tyson <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:landrest@cox.net"
target=_blank>landrest@cox.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV class=im><U></U>
<DIV lang=EN-US bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A <I>possibility,</I> sure, but not a
<I>probability. </I>Certainly the "soils" were disturbed; they were cut
slopes, creating ideal conditions for colonization by weedy plants.
Yes, the "invasives" could have altered soil properties (one of the ways
is soil-building), and in fact, it could have been the dead invasives that
harbored the residues that killed the emerging native seedlings.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Conjecture can be useful, but useless in the
absence of a stated theoretical foundation or actual evidence. What is
needed is good science that can confirm or reject the conjectures.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>----<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________
<DIV class=im><BR>PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion
of the individual posting the
message.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's
Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org">APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion of
the individual posting the message.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>Lauren Smith<BR>PhD Candidate<BR>Reynolds
Lab<BR>Department of Biology, Indiana University </DIV>
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