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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A <EM>possibility,</EM> sure, but not a
<EM>probability. </EM>Certainly the "soils" were disturbed; they were cut
slopes, creating ideal conditions for colonization by weedy plants. Yes,
the "invasives" could have altered soil properties (one of the ways is
soil-building), and in fact, it could have been the dead invasives that harbored
the residues that killed the emerging native seedlings. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Conjecture can be useful, but useless in the
absence of a stated theoretical foundation or actual evidence. What is needed is
good science that can confirm or reject the conjectures. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kadair@TNC.ORG href="mailto:kadair@TNC.ORG">Karen Adair</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 06, 2013 7:01 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked tohealth dangers: study</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Tank
residue is a definite possibility or what about the soils being different in
the invaded areas to begin with? Were those soils disturbed at some point
(causing the invasion in the first place)? Could the invasives have altered
soil properties?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> APWG
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill
Nagle<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 05, 2013 11:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers:
study<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-NZ
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black">Probably what the contractor had in the
tank before s/he sprayed your plots with glyphosate?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-NZ
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-NZ
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black">Bill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-NZ
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> APWG [<A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Wayne Tyson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 4 May 2013 10:11
a.m.<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [APWG] Heavy use of herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers:
study<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-NZ><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">All:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I had a case about
fifteen years ago where a contractor sprayed a part of the (ecosystem
restoration) project that was particularly weedy with a glyphosate
compound against my expressed orders to spray nothing. The idea was to
germinate the seeds, then kill the plants before they set seed.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">The weeds were
killed, and after the period specified by the manufacturer had passed, the
area was seeded with indigenous species. The indigenous species germinated
everywhere but where the contractor had sprayed, but we got only more weeds in
that area.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">The manufacturer's
representative went into denial; I got no help from them except to repeat the
claim that the herbicide "biodegraded" into harmless components.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Can anyone shed
light on this? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">WT</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov">Maze, Dominic</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=genafleming@gmail.com href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com">Gena
Fleming</A> ; <A title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
; <A title=rferriel@blm.org
href="mailto:rferriel@blm.org">rferriel@blm.org</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Thursday, May
02, 2013 5:07 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Re: [APWG] Heavy
use of herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers:
study<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Some
excellent points, Gena,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
I’ll try, with limited time, to address a bit of your thoughtful
comments:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
GF: “</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">I see
this idea implied a lot, that limiting the variable should somehow
limit the effects. I'm not aware of any actual support of that in
reality. Glyphosate or any other single chemical compound may not be
complex, but when they interact with biological systems, the effects can
become quite diversified and complex. This is a function of the
complexity of biological systems, not the complexity of the chemical
compound.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I am
unsure of how you received this “implied” from what I wrote (then again, I’m
not the best at expressing my thoughts); but I’ll bite and attempt to defend
a point I wasn’t really making. I think what I (and some others) have tried
to point out that glyphosate HAS been studied; seemingly to death.
These previous studies; direct, toxicological studies (in marked
contrast to this admittedly indirect study); have examined the effects of
glyphosate at many concentrations and dosages (“the dose makes the poison”).
I strongly disagree with your second sentence in the above paragraph
and whole-heartedly agree with the third. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
GF:</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> That being said,
glyphosate is used in formulations, not in isolation. There is a lack
of data for the formulations, because manufacturers are not required to
disclose "inactive ingredients". It is, however, well recognized that
adjuvants can and do increase the toxicity and persistence of
pesticide formulations, and this is the reason that they are there in the
first place. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
I again agree, but the paper we’re discussing is citing research examining
the effects of not Roundup, or Aquamaster, or product X, but the chemical
glyphosate.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
GF: “</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">It is interesting
to note that the article appeared in a special edition of Entropy called
"Biosemiotic Entropy: Disorder, Disease and Mortality".
Biosemiosis introduces a significant paradigm shift in our perception
of biologic function. This perspective may not embraced by all,
but I consider it a noble attempt to address the complexity of biological
systems. In any event, I believe the article deserves more
thoughtful consideration than that offered by Tamar Haspel in the
Huffington Post.</SPAN>”<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Fair
points for the most part; however, I’m not sure how much consideration the
article <I>does</I> deserve. As organic chemist Derek Lowe has stated
so much better than I: </SPAN>Their thesis is that the compound is an
inhibitor of the metabolizing CYP enzymes, of the biosynthesis of aromatic
amino acids by gut bacteria, and of sulfate transport. But the evidence
given for these assertions, and their connection with disease, while it
might look alarming and convincing to someone who has never done research or
read a scientific paper, is a spiderweb of "might", "could", "is possibly",
"associated with", and so on. The minute you look at the actual evidence,
things disappear.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/04/30/is_glyphosate_poisoning_everyone.php">http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/04/30/is_glyphosate_poisoning_everyone.php</A><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">He
then, after providing more critiques, goes on to disparage the actual
journal the article appears in and others have taken issue with the authors,
themselves; not really adding to the discussion, in my
opinion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
shouldn’t have to say it but I personally dislike the rampant use of
herbicides in our society. I employ them, reluctantly, as part of my
job duties and I’ve seen some others resorting to them as a first resort,
instead of last, in contradiction of most accepted IPM practices.
There are plenty of reasons to limit the use of herbicides in society: weed
resistance, non-target effects, the resources required in
manufacture/transport, animal testing,<I> actual</I> toxic effects of some
formulations, etc. But this poorly written and conceived “study”
smacks of fear-mongering with an agenda. The blowback from those
established authors in the fields of organic chemistry and toxicology has
begun, and surely won’t assist those looking for an overall decrease in the
use of herbicides.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Best
wishes,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><STRONG><SPAN
style="COLOR: green">Dominic Maze</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: green">
| </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Invasive
Species Coordinator/Biologist </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: green"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">City
of Portland Environmental Services<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">1120
SW 5th Avenue, Room 1000<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Portland,
Oregon 97204<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">p:
(503) 823-4899<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">f:
(503) 823-5344</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: green"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov">dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: gray"><A
href="http://www.portlandonline.com/bes/index.cfm?c=45696"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">www.portlandonline.com/bes/invasives</SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Gena Fleming
[<A href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com">mailto:genafleming@gmail.com</A>]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:26 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Maze,
Dominic; <A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>;
<A href="mailto:rferriel@blm.org">rferriel@blm.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [APWG] Heavy use of herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers:
study</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">This is a
interesting article and I appreciate learning about it here on APWG. I
was confused by the comments at first, thinking it was posted on an
environmental health listserve I subscribe to. My comments
below.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">Dominic Maze
wrote:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">The fact that this
paper identifies a whole range of medical issues linked to (presumably)
one active ingredient makes me suspicious; it would seem to be much more
realistic that a study on the potential ill-effects of an already
rigorously studied, very well-known and contentious chemical and product,
would turn up perhaps a single significant linkage between ill-health and
glyphosate.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">GF:
<SPAN style="COLOR: black">I see this idea implied a lot, that limiting the
variable should somehow limit the effects. I'm not aware of any
actual support of that in reality. Glyphosate or any other single
chemical compound may not be complex, but when they interact with biological
systems, the effects can become quite diversified and complex. This is
a function of the complexity of biological systems, not the complexity of
the chemical compound.</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">That being
said, glyphosate is used in formulations, not in isolation. There is a
lack of data for the formulations, because manufacturers are not required to
disclose "inactive ingredients". It is, however, well recognized that
adjuvants can and do increase the toxicity and persistence of
pesticide formulations, and this is the reason that they are there in the
first place. This, along with other factors, contributes to a
contextual bias that makes it difficult to assess the full toxicity of
pesticide formulations.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">DM: A colleague
sent this link to a Huffington Post article (not exactly known for being
journalistic shills for big business) which makes a nice
rebuttal:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with-_b_3162694.html"
target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with-_b_3162694.html</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">I guess the real
question is how does such a poorly executed study and paper get published
in a well-respected, even if not impactful, journal?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">GF:
Marc, I'm not sure what it is about Tamar Haspel's opinion piece that you
consider to be a nice rebuttal. She explains that she googles
"exogenous semiotic entropy", retrieves that exact sequence of words only in
this article, and concludes the authors made the whole thing up.
(???) </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">I agree with
you that there is no reason to suspect the writer is a shill for big
business, just a person with an opinion, which she is entitled to.
However, I do not find her analysis of this article to be particularly
insightful.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">Here is a
link to the referenced article in Entropy:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> <A
href="http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416"
target=_blank>http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">It is
interesting to note that the article appeared in a special edition of
Entropy called "Biosemiotic Entropy: Disorder, Disease and
Mortality". Biosemiosis introduces a significant paradigm
shift in our perception of biologic function. This perspective
may not embraced by all, but I consider it a noble attempt to address the
complexity of biological systems. In any event, I believe the
article deserves more thoughtful consideration than that offered by
Tamar Haspel in the Huffington Post.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">best
regards,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'">Gena
Fleming<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Georgia','serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
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<P
class=MsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's
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