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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I had a case about fifteen years ago where a
contractor sprayed a part of the (ecosystem restoration) project that was
particularly weedy with a glyphosate compound against my expressed orders to
spray nothing. The idea was to germinate the seeds, then kill the plants before
they set seed. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The weeds were killed, and after the period
specified by the manufacturer had passed, the area was seeded with indigenous
species. The indigenous species germinated everywhere but where the contractor
had sprayed, but we got only more weeds in that area.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The manufacturer's representative went into denial;
I got no help from them except to repeat the claim that the herbicide
"biodegraded" into harmless components. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Can anyone shed light on this? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov">Maze, Dominic</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=genafleming@gmail.com
href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com">Gena Fleming</A> ; <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
; <A title=rferriel@blm.org
href="mailto:rferriel@blm.org">rferriel@blm.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 02, 2013 5:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers: study</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Some excellent
points, Gena,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I’ll
try, with limited time, to address a bit of your thoughtful
comments:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> GF:
“</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Georgia color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">I see this idea implied a lot, that
limiting the variable should somehow limit the effects. I'm not
aware of any actual support of that in reality. Glyphosate or any other
single chemical compound may not be complex, but when they interact with
biological systems, the effects can become quite diversified and
complex. This is a function of the complexity of biological systems, not
the complexity of the chemical compound.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am unsure of how
you received this “implied” from what I wrote (then again, I’m not the best at
expressing my thoughts); but I’ll bite and attempt to defend a point I wasn’t
really making. I think what I (and some others) have tried to point out that
glyphosate HAS been studied; seemingly to death. These previous studies;
direct, toxicological studies (in marked contrast to this admittedly indirect
study); have examined the effects of glyphosate at many concentrations and
dosages (“the dose makes the poison”). I strongly disagree with your
second sentence in the above paragraph and whole-heartedly agree with the
third. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
GF:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> That
being said, glyphosate is used in formulations, not in isolation. There
is a lack of data for the formulations, because manufacturers are not required
to disclose "inactive ingredients". It is, however, well recognized that
adjuvants can and do increase the toxicity and persistence of
pesticide formulations, and this is the reason that they are there in the
first place. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I again
agree, but the paper we’re discussing is citing research examining the effects
of not Roundup, or Aquamaster, or product X, but the chemical
glyphosate.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
GF: “</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">It is
interesting to note that the article appeared in a special edition of Entropy
called "Biosemiotic Entropy: Disorder, Disease and
Mortality". Biosemiosis introduces a significant paradigm
shift in our perception of biologic function. This perspective may
not embraced by all, but I consider it a noble attempt to address the
complexity of biological systems. In any event, I believe the
article deserves more thoughtful consideration than that offered by Tamar
Haspel in the Huffington Post.</SPAN></FONT>”<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Fair
points for the most part; however, I’m not sure how much consideration the
article <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">does</SPAN></I> deserve. As
organic chemist Derek Lowe has stated so much better than I:
</SPAN></FONT>Their thesis is that the compound is an inhibitor of the
metabolizing CYP enzymes, of the biosynthesis of aromatic amino acids by gut
bacteria, and of sulfate transport. But the evidence given for these
assertions, and their connection with disease, while it might look alarming
and convincing to someone who has never done research or read a scientific
paper, is a spiderweb of "might", "could", "is possibly", "associated with",
and so on. The minute you look at the actual evidence, things
disappear.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/04/30/is_glyphosate_poisoning_everyone.php">http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/04/30/is_glyphosate_poisoning_everyone.php</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">He then, after
providing more critiques, goes on to disparage the actual journal the article
appears in and others have taken issue with the authors, themselves; not
really adding to the discussion, in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I shouldn’t have to
say it but I personally dislike the rampant use of herbicides in our
society. I employ them, reluctantly, as part of my job duties and I’ve
seen some others resorting to them as a first resort, instead of last, in
contradiction of most accepted IPM practices. There are plenty of
reasons to limit the use of herbicides in society: weed resistance, non-target
effects, the resources required in manufacture/transport, animal
testing,<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic"> actual</SPAN></I> toxic effects
of some formulations, etc. But this poorly </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">written and conceived
“study” smacks of fear-mongering with an agenda. The blowback from those
established authors in the fields of organic chemistry and toxicology has
begun, and surely won’t assist those looking for an overall decrease in the
use of herbicides.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best
wishes,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><STRONG><B><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=green size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: green">Dominic
Maze</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT color=green><SPAN style="COLOR: green"> |
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Calibri color=gray size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Invasive Species
Coordinator/Biologist </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=green><SPAN
style="COLOR: green"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">City
of <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Portland</st1:place></st1:City>
Environmental Services<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">1120 SW 5th
Avenue</SPAN></FONT></st1:address></st1:Street><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">, Room
1000<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Portland</SPAN></FONT></st1:City><FONT
face=Calibri color=gray size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">, <st1:State
w:st="on">Oregon</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">97204</st1:PostalCode></SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT face=Calibri
color=gray size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">p: (503)
823-4899<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">f:
(503) 823-5344</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=green><SPAN
style="COLOR: green"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><A
href="mailto:dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov">dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=gray><SPAN style="COLOR: gray"><A
href="http://www.portlandonline.com/bes/index.cfm?c=45696"><FONT face=Calibri
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">www.portlandonline.com/bes/invasives</SPAN></FONT></A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Gena
Fleming [mailto:genafleming@gmail.com] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:26
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Maze, Dominic;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</st1:PersonName>;
rferriel@blm.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[APWG] Heavy use of herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers:
study</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">This is a interesting article
and I appreciate learning about it here on APWG. I was confused by the
comments at first, thinking it was posted on an environmental health listserve
I subscribe to. My comments
below.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Dominic Maze
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Georgia color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">The fact that
this paper identifies a whole range of medical issues linked to (presumably)
one active ingredient makes me suspicious; it would seem to be much more
realistic that a study on the potential ill-effects of an already rigorously
studied, very well-known and contentious chemical and product, would turn up
perhaps a single significant linkage between ill-health and
glyphosate.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Georgia color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">GF: <FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I see this idea implied a lot, that
limiting the variable should somehow limit the effects. I'm not
aware of any actual support of that in reality. Glyphosate or any other
single chemical compound may not be complex, but when they interact with
biological systems, the effects can become quite diversified and
complex. This is a function of the complexity of biological systems, not
the complexity of the chemical
compound.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">That being said, glyphosate is
used in formulations, not in isolation. There is a lack of data for the
formulations, because manufacturers are not required to disclose "inactive
ingredients". It is, however, well recognized that adjuvants can and
do increase the toxicity and persistence of pesticide formulations,
and this is the reason that they are there in the first place. This,
along with other factors, contributes to a contextual bias that makes it
difficult to assess the full toxicity of pesticide
formulations.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">DM: A
colleague sent this link to a Huffington Post article (not exactly known for
being journalistic shills for big business) which makes a nice
rebuttal:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Georgia size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with-_b_3162694.html"
target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with-_b_3162694.html</A></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Georgia color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">I guess the real
question is how does such a poorly executed study and paper get published in
a well-respected, even if not impactful,
journal?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">GF: Marc, I'm not sure
what it is about Tamar Haspel's opinion piece that you consider to be a nice
rebuttal. She explains that she googles "exogenous semiotic entropy",
retrieves that exact sequence of words only in this article, and concludes the
authors made the whole thing up. (???)
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">I agree with you that there is
no reason to suspect the writer is a shill for big business, just a person
with an opinion, which she is entitled to. However, I do not find her
analysis of this article to be particularly
insightful.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Here is a link to the referenced
article in Entropy:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> <A
href="http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416"
target=_blank>http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416</A></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">It is interesting to note that
the article appeared in a special edition of Entropy called "Biosemiotic
Entropy: Disorder, Disease and Mortality".
Biosemiosis introduces a significant paradigm shift in our perception of
biologic function. This perspective may not embraced by all, but I
consider it a noble attempt to address the complexity of biological systems.
In any event, I believe the article deserves more
thoughtful consideration than that offered by Tamar Haspel in the
Huffington Post.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">best
regards,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Georgia size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia">Gena
Fleming<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Georgia color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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