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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This list needs more disciplined discourse like
this. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=genafleming@gmail.com href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com">Gena
Fleming</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov">Maze, Dominic</A> ; <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
; <A title=rferriel@blm.org
href="mailto:rferriel@blm.org">rferriel@blm.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Heavy use of
herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers:study</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0>This is a
interesting article and I appreciate learning about it here on APWG. I
was confused by the comments at first, thinking it was posted on an
environmental health listserve I subscribe to. My comments
below.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0>Dominic Maze
wrote:<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">The fact that this paper
identifies a whole range of medical issues linked to (presumably) one active
ingredient makes me suspicious; it would seem to be much more realistic that
a study on the potential ill-effects of an already rigorously studied, very
well-known and contentious chemical and product, would turn up perhaps a
single significant linkage between ill-health and
glyphosate.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0>GF: <FONT
color=#000000>I see this idea implied a lot, that limiting the
variable should somehow limit the effects. I'm not aware of any
actual support of that in reality. Glyphosate or any other single
chemical compound may not be complex, but when they interact with biological
systems, the effects can become quite diversified and complex. This is a
function of the complexity of biological systems, not the complexity of the
chemical compound.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0>That being said,
glyphosate is used in formulations, not in isolation. There is a lack of
data for the formulations, because manufacturers are not required to disclose
"inactive ingredients". It is, however, well recognized that adjuvants
can and do increase the toxicity and persistence of pesticide
formulations, and this is the reason that they are there in the first
place. This, along with other factors, contributes to a contextual bias
that makes it difficult to assess the full toxicity of pesticide
formulations.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0><FONT
color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">DM: A colleague sent this link to a
Huffington Post article (not exactly known for being journalistic shills for
big business) which makes a nice
rebuttal:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0><SPAN><A
href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with-_b_3162694.html"
target=_blank>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tamar-haspel/condemning-monsanto-with-_b_3162694.html</A></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">I guess the real question
is how does such a poorly executed study and paper get published in a
well-respected, even if not impactful,
journal?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0>GF: Marc,
I'm not sure what it is about Tamar Haspel's opinion piece that you consider
to be a nice rebuttal. She explains that she googles "exogenous semiotic
entropy", retrieves that exact sequence of words only in this article, and
concludes the authors made the whole thing up. (???)
</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=+0>I agree with you
that there is no reason to suspect the writer is a shill for big business,
just a person with an opinion, which she is entitled to. However, I do
not find her analysis of this article to be particularly
insightful.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT
size=+0></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif">Here is a link to the referenced
article in Entropy:</SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <A
href="http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416"
target=_blank>http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416</A></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It is interesting to note that the article appeared in
a special edition of Entropy called "Biosemiotic Entropy: Disorder,
Disease and Mortality". Biosemiosis introduces a significant
paradigm shift in our perception of biologic function. <FONT
size=3>This perspective may not e<FONT size=3>mbraced by all, but <FONT
size=3>I consider it a noble attempt to address the complexity of biological
systems. In any event, </FONT></FONT></FONT>I believe the<FONT
size=3> article</FONT> deserves more thoughtful consideration than that
offered by Tamar Haspel in t<FONT size=3>he Huffington
Post</FONT>.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif">best regards,</SPAN></DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif">Gena Fleming<BR></SPAN><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif"> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV><BR>
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class=MsoNormal><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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