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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>LRB and y'all:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Thanks for this anecdote. I'm actually a big fan of
anecdotes, but it has been said that they are "the singular of data." I have
"walked" areas and felt that I "knew" what was and was not there. Then I have
surveyed the same area with various techniques (point-intercept, transect,
quadrat, etc.) and found that I really had no real concept of what was and
wasn't there. Of course, absence is more difficult to determine than presence
("Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." --Author
unknown)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Cases do not necessarily explain principles; even
if there are data, such is not necessarily the case. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>It is not necessarily surprising that a disturbed
area is not invaded, and even six years may be insufficient to provide evidence
of the absence of any particular species. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Nonetheless, this might be a case worthy of closer
attention. The lack of regeneration of the desired timber species would
certainly warrant study. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>The fact that Cornell would be involved in this
sort of thing is at first surprising, then maybe not. What so many farmers,
tree-farmers (foresters?) fail to understand is the role of ecosystem dynamics
and the benefits of other species. An unfortunate number (majority?) of managers
continue to entertain a number of myths like "removing competition." It ain't
necessarily so . . .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I will insert comments and questions in
[[double-brackets thus. WT]]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>Certainly, "disturbance" ALONE is not necessarily
the SOLE causal factor in cases of invasion--the variables are infinite (at
least comparatively speaking). "God" is in the context, and the devil is in the
details. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>WT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>----- Original Message ----- </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><FONT
size=4><B>From:</B> </FONT><A title=rlb14@cornell.edu
href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu"><FONT size=4>Robert Layton
Beyfuss</FONT></A><FONT size=4> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><B>Cc:</B> </FONT><A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT
size=4>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT size=4> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 05, 2012
1:38 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG]
Ecosystems Invasions Re: Do ecosystems resistinvasion?Invasion and cropping
Re: rate of change</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><FONT
size=4>I don’t think Utah is any more kooky than any other state in this
regard. An interesting twist on this same topic is that sometimes even highly
disturbed sites seem to resist invasion. A friend of mine at Cornell is
charged with managing a large area of forest (4,000 acres) for timber
production, first and foremost. He hires a tractor driven mist blower to
spray herbicide on 50 acre blocks within the forest to suppress understory
vegetation, primarily beech tree root sprouts which can and have made it
impossible to even walk through some places in the forest. I was
seriously angry at him when he killed off a small population of American
ginseng as a result of this “collateral” damage. What made me even more upset
however, was my assumption that these 50 acre blocks would quickly be invaded
and overrun by the many species of known invasive plants that were already
present in adjacent blocks and all along the access roads and trails. These
weeds included Japanese barberry, non native honeysuckles, garlic mustard,
autumn olive, multiflora rose and a few others. Last summer he invited
me to tour some other blocks within this forest that he had sprayed 2, 4 and 6
years ago. I expected the worst but to my surprise, I really could not tell at
a glance which blocks were sprayed 6 years ago versus some that were not
sprayed at all. Somehow, certain herbaceous perennials such as Christmas fern
and others had returned and there were no more invasive plants present then
before the spraying. I still do not understand why. Ironically though, the
spraying did not necessarily achieve the result of increasing the presence of
the desired timber species from the existing seed bank on the forest floor, or
even increasing the growth rate of the overstory trees. Sometimes, as Cubby
from WV noted in a previous post regarding stilt grass, it is possible to find
out “how” an invasive species gets into an area but it is much, much more
daunting to try to explain “Why”. Disturbance alone does not seem to fit the
bill in all cases. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><FONT
size=4>From:</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><FONT size=4> Ty
Harrison [mailto:tyju@xmission.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 05, 2012
2:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Wayne Tyson; Robert Layton Beyfuss; Ryan McEwan;
John<BR><B>Cc:</B> apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[APWG] Ecosystems Invasions Re: Do ecosystems resistinvasion?Invasion and
cropping Re: rate of change<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p><FONT size=4> </FONT></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">APWG:
Regarding Wayne Tyson's astonishment (below),.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></P></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><FONT
size=4>Wayne et al: Little do you know! (about the magnitude of
helicopter applied herbicide here in Utah). Read this and
weep: </FONT><A href="http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15185646"><FONT
size=4>http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15185646</FONT></A><FONT
size=4> . Massive amounts of glyphosate are being dumped annually
on the non-native genotype of Phragmites australis in the public and private
marshlands around Great Salt Lake: </FONT><A
href="http://www.utahwildlifephotos.com/keyword/phragmites/1/470783372_dUyTS#!i=470783372&k=dUyTS"><FONT
size=4>http://www.utahwildlifephotos.com/keyword/phragmites/1/470783372_dUyTS#!i=470783372&k=dUyTS</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><FONT size=4>I
know everyone thinks Utah is kooky, but this is an accepted practice, dare I
say "best management practice" BMP!!!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><FONT size=4>Ty
Harrison<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P><FONT size=4></FONT></P><FONT size=4>
<HR>
</FONT>
<P></P><BR><FONT
size=4>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's Alien Plant
Working Group mailing
list<BR>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org<BR>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org<BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion of
the individual posting the message.</FONT>
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