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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hi y'all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I suspect that a lot of the "backlash" that occurs is the
result of excessive hyperbole and pure pig-headedness than healthy intellectual
intercourse. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>"Alien" is a loaded word because of its semantic
alliances, different in every malignant prong of undisciplined linguistic
evolution; "lay" people are sometimes surprisingly ignorant of even simpler
distinctions (e.g. an educated project manager who thought that chaparral was a
single species), but they are not unintelligent, the distinction simply had not
yet proven necessary in her life. One wonders how far off the beam the rest of
the "rabble" is. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thinking of others as rabble and giving up on them is all
too common among academics, even science-writers. Would dropping the term
"alien" from the scholarly literature and replacing it with a less-loaded term
advance or retard understanding? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>WT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>"'Tis friction's brisk, rough rub that provides the vital
spark!" --A. R. Martin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3>----- Original Message -----
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><FONT
size=3><B>From:</B> </FONT><A title=rlb14@cornell.edu
href="mailto:rlb14@cornell.edu"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Robert Layton
Beyfuss</FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3><B>To:</B> </FONT><A
title=gino.graziano@alaska.gov href="mailto:gino.graziano@alaska.gov"><FONT
color=#000000 size=3>Graziano, Gino A (DNR)</FONT></A><FONT size=3> ;
</FONT><A title=genafleming@gmail.com
href="mailto:genafleming@gmail.com"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Gena
Fleming</FONT></A><FONT size=3> ; </FONT><A title=landrest@cox.net
href="mailto:landrest@cox.net"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Wayne
Tyson</FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3><B>Cc:</B> </FONT><A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT color=#000000
size=3>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT size=3> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 25, 2011
2:31 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3><B>Subject:</B> RE: [APWG]
Terminology still unresolved? Re: Jewelweed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><FONT
size=3><FONT color=#000000>Hi All<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As
long as the term “invasive” is restricted to place of origin as in
the Presidential E.O. definition </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">“an
alien species* whose introduction does or is likely to cause economic or
environmental harm or harm to human health.” </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: #4f81bd; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">and
requires an asterisk * to further define that cryptic term, many people will
equate exotic or alien with invasive and will make stupid decisions based on
that misunderstanding. Here in NY state we have executive orders on
several levels of state government banning all “exotic” plants in publicly
funded projects, not invasive exotic plants, but ALL exotic plants. Currently
there is a grant i.e. a publicly funded project underway in parts of NY
City to remove all exotic species in a particular area that includes parts of
Brooklyn and Manhattan, regardless of their reproductive status or whether or
not they are weeds and replace them with native plants. This is a serious and
needless waste of my tax dollars and an infringement on my rights as a citizen
to enjoy plants that cause no harm but are condemned because of their country
of origin. We have state funded swat teams travelling around NY now spraying
herbicide on Giant Hogweed at a cost of 1 million $ with zero chance of
eradicating it or even seriously slowing its spread. I would much rather see
the money spent on studies that are trying to understand why these plants are
spreading but the money is there to kill and not to understand why.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: #4f81bd; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><FONT
size=3><FONT color=#000000>I think most people on this list serve realize that
the terms alien or exotic mean from a different ecosystem than the one they
are introduced into and not just a different country but most laypeople will
not. This is the fundamental flaw of invasion biology as a science and what
has provoked backlash, as in the article in discussion.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: #4f81bd; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Bob</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #4f81bd; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Graziano, Gino A (DNR)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:51
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Gena Fleming; Wayne Tyson<BR><B>Cc:</B>
apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Terminology
still unresolved? Re: Jewelweed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Re: "I presume
that everyone has actually read the recent Davis, et al
paper?"</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I read the article, heard him
talk on Science Friday, and read the transcript of the program. I found
the article and interview to be timely, however largely and disturbingly an
incomplete account of how invasive species managers are making
decisions. First though, I will commend the efforts of the authors
because there are many individuals and land managers that do not take the time
to critically evaluate the best available information and manage “invasive”
species based on nativity instead of real threat to resources. I also
agree that a lot of the language used to describe invasive species lends to
public and land manager bias to non-native species in general. Both of
these issues are real and are counterproductive to natural resource
management.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>As a state coordinator of invasive species management in
Alaska, I regularly discuss the need to focus on those few species that are
really problematic and not just any species based on nativity alone. The
concept of only a few problematic species is not new and was brought up by
Williams in his 1996 book “Biological Invasions” where he presented the “Tens
rule” (you all know that though). Focus on true problems, is
increasingly becoming the norm as many regions of the world are developing
invasiveness ranking systems that seek to clarify which species are ecosystem
changers and which are simply persistent in habitats that we (humans) develop
(e.g. roadsides, gravel pits, air strips etc.). The ranking system
Alaska uses is found at <A
href="http://aknhp.uaa.alaska.edu/botany/akepic/non-native-plant-species-biographies/">http://aknhp.uaa.alaska.edu/botany/akepic/non-native-plant-species-biographies/</A>.
No ranking alone is the guiding decision tool and the authors of Alaska’s
acknowledge that management/regulatory action still requires more insight into
economic, social and environmental interactions a species has in an
area.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>So, I ask why are ranking systems not brought up in the
Davis article? If they don’t work, Davis and others should let us all
know. Why are ABC lists and their creation by boards with review by the
public not discussed? The comment paper, is an opinion that needs to be
fleshed out into a real peer reviewed, complete and unbiased article that
evaluates invasive species management, how species are prioritized for
management, and what efforts are a success, failure or waste of time.
All this should be in the context of the human as well as environmental need
to adapt to a changing world. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I believe we still have a long way to go in achieving the
best management strategies across the board. With all due respect, to
criticize management efforts while ignoring attempts to improve management is
at best incompetent. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>This is an important discussion that should continue well
beyond this listserve.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Gino
Graziano, NRS<BR>Invasive Weeds and Agricultural Pest Coordinator</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">DNR,
Division of Agriculture</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Plant
Materials Center</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">5310
S. Bodenburg Spur Road</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Palmer,
AK 99645</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">907-745-8127</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR><A
href="mailto:Gino..Graziano@Alaska.gov"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Gino.Graziano@Alaska.gov</SPAN></A><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/ag/ag_pmc.htm">http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/ag/ag_pmc.htm</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Gena
Fleming<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 20, 2011 7:07 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Wayne
Tyson<BR><B>Cc:</B> apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[APWG] Terminology still unresolved? Re: Jewelweed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Hi
All:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Re: "I presume
that everyone has actually read the recent Davis, et al
paper?"</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I don't think a
link has been posted..... just in case, this will take you to
it:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/news/pdf/061411_deltredici_nature.pdf">http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/news/pdf/061411_deltredici_nature.pdf</A> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">I'm really enjoying this
discussion. There is a lot of disinformation that can hide behind
outdated terminology. New terminology is a good idea. But even
still, one needs to stay on top of whatever terminology one is are using, and
think about what is really happening in any given
context.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">I can already hear
promoters of biotechnology grabbing the "Don't judge species on their origins"
mantra to defend genetically engineered species. This would be
unfortunate, because the preoccupation with "non-native" exotics, I feel, is
partially to blame for genetically egineered species being, for the most part,
ignored by conservationists. We have all these databases cropping
up that employ citizen scientists to report location of "non-native"
exotics. Meanwhile, genetically engineered organisms are granted secret
locations, and it is even claimed that insertion of foreign DNA from a
different genus doesn't really change the
species.....</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">This is also related to
microbiology being replaced by molecular biology..... and biology being
diverted by biotechnology.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">I hope we can soon end this
war agains nature and find a new consciousness to guide our observation and
interactions. As has already been said, this is going to take good
critical thinking skills because, of course, any organism living in nature is
transforming that environment, "manipulating" it to a certain extent.
But there needs to be a more qualitative and nuanced understanding of what
kind of transformation we should be engaged in with our environment, one that
is mutually beneficial. That understanding will benefit from
terminology, but it will also need to be an ongoing exploratory process,
subject to open dialogue, criticism and review. Words, like organisms,
can mean one thing in one context, and quite another in a new
context.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">As for the current
definition of "invasive", I do not think any term should lump ecologic impact
with economic impact as a qualifying criteria. That's just bad
juju.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">It's late. Not sure
how convoluted this sounds, but that's my stream of consciousness for
now.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Anyway, I'm enjoying
reading the discussion ---- thanks</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">best,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Gena</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 19 July 2011 18:14, Wayne Tyson <<A
href="mailto:landrest@cox.net">landrest@cox.net</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Dominic Maze,
friends, and APWG:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Dominic, I mostly
agree with your observations, but here is what I was stimulated to write (it's
more than colloquial; it's a stream-of-consciousness first draft, far from
acceptable for publication).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I do not think
that ecology is a "soft" doctrine as opposed to a <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">science, </SPAN></EM>as I consider
the heart of science to be the asking of questions about Nature or "reality."
I do think those who call themselves "ecologists" worry too much about
"standing" and not enough about just getting on with the work and damn the
torpedoes, the slings and arrows of outrageous petulance by the egocentric.
While I might agree with His Pre-eminence’s (Rutherford's) comment about
botany as taxonomy to some degree (to the extent that some "botanists" DO seem
to limit themselves to pursuing taxonomic glory more than understanding
of Nature), but have no use for sniffy remarks like his in all contexts (I
don't know in what context he made the remark, but it seems needlessly rude).
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">My private
position is "Screw the posturers!" Ignore such stuff. If one is intimidated by
physics, join the club (Einstein, Feynman). But courage often consists of
ignoring posturing (and Lordy knows we are surrounded by such dick-heads.)
Academia is drowning in Greek letters, algorithms, and prissy, ill-founded
jargon; what it needs, especially ecology, is to drop the pretenses and the
insecurities that give rise to them, and get on with the work of understanding
what makes Nature tick. Botany is a helluva lot more than taxonomy. Arguing
from authority is a not-well-enough-known logical fallacy, and too much
discussion is colored with such divergent manipulation. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I didn't even
know what "ecology" meant when I started college in 1956, but I had the good
fortune to have Lee Haines as a professor; Haines was a true man for all
disciplines, and he taught botany and ecology together, along with other
disciplines as needed. I still use his first lesson every day--he placed two
Petri dishes before us, one with some muck and a planarian, the other with
agar and a bacterial culture, some pipettes, saline solution, and
some pennicilium mold. He taught is how to key out plants, yes, but he also
taught us life zones, succession, and other useful knowledge. But most of all,
he taught us how to think (now known as "critical thinking"). We camped out a
lot, and sang around the campfire. Later professors had a high standard to
live up to, as did we students. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I did turn to the
Executive Order on Invasive Species, and I thought it to be more political
bunk than science.. It specifically excluded humans and their livestock and
crops. Science requires honesty and that is simply dishonesty. There would be
no “invasive species” problem if it weren’t for those exclusions. That’s an
outrage. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I quite agree
with Maze that terms like “ruderal” and “healthy” need to be clarified or
eliminated, but someone has to come up with something better, preferably a
family of related terms that do not contradict each other. I’m not so
confident that “new terms will inevitably arise.” I fear that the confusion
will multiply as egocentricity continues to reign, covering its doubtful
tracks with obfuscation and pseudo-intellectual fog. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I wasn’t
referring to <I>Impatiens capensis</I>; I meant to call for clarity of
communication, however, far beyond “peers.” (I do, however, thank Vanderploeg
for stimulating my question.) A major problem with the anti-science,
anti-intellectual fever in this country can be laid at the feet of the
academic “peerage.” Recent analysis of the Declaration of Independence has
revealed that Jefferson erased “subjects” and wrote over it “citizens.” Unless
there’s a good reason to do so, terminology should not be reduced to academic
jargon—it drives away the curious, the amateur, yes, even the dilettante.
These should be embraced, not shunned. Just what do truly superior
intellects have to fear from the rabble--that they will climb up the
ivy? And they should know what the hell we’re talking about in
“colloquial” terms if possible, presuming clarity. But at least "we"
should know, eh? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I look forward
to the definition of terms that can be widely accepted as the
standard for both colloquial (maybe a glossary?) and scientifically
acceptable terms. (And oh, while you're about it, how about a new term for
"brush?") </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">WT</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">PS: I presume
that everyone has actually read the recent Davis, et al paper?
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">“I have sworn
eternal vigilance over every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” –Thomas
Jefferson</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">“The only thing
that interferes with my learning is my education.” –Albert
Einstein</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">“The suspension
of judgment is the highest exercise in intellectual discipline.” –Raymond
Gilmore</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">----- Original
Message ----- </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Maze, Dominic</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
title=jrandall@email.unc.edu href="mailto:jrandall@email.unc.edu"
target=_blank><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">'Randall, John
L'</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> ; </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
title=landrest@cox.net href="mailto:landrest@cox.net" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Wayne Tyson</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> ; </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
title=wvanderploeg@ameritech.net href="mailto:wvanderploeg@ameritech.net"
target=_blank><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Wayne
Vanderploeg</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> ; </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
title=katie@westernwatersheds.org href="mailto:katie@westernwatersheds.org"
target=_blank><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Katie
Fite</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> ; </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Tuesday, July
19, 2011 2:11 PM</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> RE: [APWG]
Terminology still unresolved? Re: Jewelweed</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
couldn’t agree more, Mr. Tyson, on the importance of using proper (and
well-defined) terminology in any sub-discipline of ecology. After all,
ecology itself has often been considered the “soft” doctrine of the
biological sciences, and any clarification and standardization of
terminology is welcome and necessary to furthering effective research,
communication, and “conservation” (and increasing the relative standing of
ecology as a discipline). When considering ecology’s standing as a science,
I am often reminded of the pre-eminent physicist, Sir Ernest Rutherford’s
dismissive comment of turn of the (last)-century botany (and I paraphrase),
“Botany is fine; it is about as difficult a science as stamp-collecting.”
[ouch!]</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
I too, turn to the definition of invasive species posted below and often
point out that a species which escapes at a constricted scale and doesn’t
persist in the environment (displays low population fitness) is not (to me)
“invasive” (and I am reluctant to use term even though it is part of my job
title!). However, at what temporal and spatial scales do we arbitrarily
choose to demarcate as a threshold for “invasive” or not? Defining
populations as “r” or “K” were once valuable in the budding discipline of
population biology and ecology; and while still taught in Universities,
these have similar limitations; just as the once useful definitions “apex”
or “healthy” (or even trying to fit population dynamics to a Lotka-Voltera”
model) do. These limitations create problems such as your (common)
distinction between “ruderal” and “healthy” (does this mean that all
“ruderal” systems are “unhealthy”?). As a result, these terms and
approaches fall from favor and the supporting concepts evolve to better
describe the wide range of dynamics we observe and record. New terms
will inevitably arise.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">As
to <I>Impatiens capensis</I>: I’m not sure if your last two sentences,
“It appears that some believe there is no distinction. I would appreciate
any correction, definitions, or suggestions that will bring discipline to
communication about these subjects.” refers to the present discussion about
this species. If it does, I would suggest reading the excellent Zika
papers below. If it doesn’t, and speaks to the larger issue of
communication among peers, then perhaps the lack of distinction stems from
colloquial discussions such as this one. Either way, your point is a very
important one that bears consideration and we would all be wise to retain
it.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Cheers,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dominic
Maze</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">
| </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Invasive
Species Coordinator </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">City
of Portland Environmental Services</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">1120
SW 5th Avenue, Room 1000</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Portland,
Oregon 97204</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">p:
(503) 823-4899</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">f:
(503) 823-5344</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov"
target=_blank>dominic.maze@portlandoregon..gov</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Randall, John L
[mailto:<A href="mailto:jrandall@email.unc.edu"
target=_blank>jrandall@email.unc.edu</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 19,
2011 12:22 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Wayne Tyson; Wayne Vanderploeg; Maze, Dominic;
Katie Fite; <A href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[APWG] Terminology still unresolved? Re:
Jewelweed</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
always turn to the Executive Order on Invasive Species for my “invasive
species” definition, which is: “an alien species* whose introduction does or
is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health.”
As for those plant species that occur/specialize in disturbed areas – I
generally call these either native or alien weeds. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">(*”Alien
species" means, with respect to a particular ecosystem, any species,
including its seeds, eggs, spores, or other biological material capable of
propagating that species, that is not native to that ecosystem.)
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Johnny
Randall</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Wayne Tyson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
Wayne Vanderploeg; Maze, Dominic; Katie Fite; <A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> [APWG]
Terminology still unresolved? Re:
Jewelweed</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hello
all,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Is there anyone
who acknowledges (or would it be simpler to say "does not acknowledge") that
there is at least a phenomenological difference between "alien" species
that are largely restricted to disturbed sites and those which "invade"
healthy ecosystems? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I realize that
some of the terminology used here is debatable too, and such discussion are
worth having, but it would appear, if "invasion ecology" is to be taken
seriously as a sub-discipline of ecology, that clarity of terminology is
vital to clear communication. Time was, colonization referred to any
movement of an organism into a "new" location, plants (what about animals?)
that were restricted to disturbed areas were termed "ruderal," and "alien"
organisms that colonized healthy/undisturbed ecosystems were called
"invasive." </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">It appears that
some believe there is no distinction. I would appreciate any correction,
definitions, or suggestions that will bring discipline to communication
about these subjects. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">WT</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">-----
Original Message ----- </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=wvanderploeg@ameritech.net href="mailto:wvanderploeg@ameritech.net"
target=_blank>Wayne Vanderploeg</A> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov" target=_blank>Maze,
Dominic</A> ; <A title=katie@westernwatersheds.org
href="mailto:katie@westernwatersheds.org" target=_blank>Katie Fite</A> ;
<A title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists..plantconservation.org</A>
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Tuesday, July
19, 2011 10:24 AM</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Re: [APWG]
Jewelweed</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Hello All, <BR><BR>I don't usually make comment
to this group....I generally browse this list to see what new issues are
popping up. As a biologist/ecologist/naturalist/land manager for 31
years in the Chicago area with the Forest Preserve District of Cook
County, I have seen this plant come and go. Deer do browse it
heavily and tend to prefer it over most other plants. It does well
in disturbed areas where the soil is rich, moist and semi shaded. I
have always viewed it as sensitive plant that is easily displaced by weeds
and never thought of it as a problem plant in the Chicago area. The
fact that it is spreading prolifically in other areas where it typically
does not occur could be a symptom of a bigger problem. I would
expect it to disappear when those problems are discovered and
solved. <BR><BR>Wayne Vanderploeg</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> "Maze,
Dominic" <<A href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov"
target=_blank>Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov</A>><BR><B>To:</B> Katie
Fite <<A href="mailto:katie@westernwatersheds.org"
target=_blank>katie@westernwatersheds.org</A>>; "<A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>" <<A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>><BR><B>Sent:</B>
Tue, July 19, 2011 11:42:18 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG]
Jewelweed</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
Katie et alia,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
<I>Impatiens capensis</I> is, in my experience, a problematic species here
west of the Cascade Range in the Pacific NW. The densities of this
sp. are pretty amazing with the understory of riparian corridors often
dominated by it. I’ve been seeing more and more of it in the
Willamette Valley and surrounding ranges here in Oregon with seemingly
little attention paid to it.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
Interestingly, some land managers still consider this species native here
on the West Coast, probably due to confusion with our native, <I>I.
ecalcarata</I> in some older floras and field guides. Ed Alverson of
TNC wrote a short comment in reply to a posting on <I>I. capensis</I> at
the Botany Photo of the Day website:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'">“Impatiens
capensis is an introduced and invasive species in the Pacific Northwest ,
west of the Cascades. Peter Zika addressed this issue in a 2006 paper,
"The status of Impatiens capensis (Balsaminaceae) on the<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif'">Pacific
Northwest coast", published in the Journal of the Torrey Botanical Club,
vol. 133 pp.. 593-600. In fact, I. capensis is spreading into the habitats
of the uncommon native I. ecalcarata west of the Cascades, and the two
species are hybridizing. This has created a situation where the native
species is potentially being out-competed by both the introduced species
and by their hybrids. Zika has published another paper on the hybrid,
which he has named Impatiens x pacifica , see "Impatiens x pacifica
(Balsaminaceae), a New Hybrid jewelweed from the Pacific Northwest Coast
of North America", Novon vol. 16, pp. 443-448,
2006.”</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Add
this spp. to <I>I. glandulifera</I> (a big problem) and <I>I.
balfourii</I> (an escaping species which may be a problem in the future),
and we’ve got our hands full out here with the
touch-me-nots.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dominic
Maze</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">
| </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Invasive
Species Coordinator </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">City
of Portland Environmental Services</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">1120
SW 5th Avenue, Room 1000</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Portland,
Oregon 97204</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">p:
(503) 823-4899</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">f:
(503) 823-5344</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="mailto:dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov"
target=_blank>dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A>] <B>On Behalf
Of </B>Katie Fite<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 18, 2011 5:46
PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B>
[APWG] Jewelweed</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Has anyone
had any experience with jewelweed (Impatiens) native to the eastern U. S.
becoming weedy in valley marsh habitats in the intermountain West?
<BR><BR>I see that jewelweed <I>Impatiens capensis</I> (orange jewelweed)
is listed as a King County (WA) “Weed of Concern”. <BR><BR>This
species is shown as having a yellow flowered form, which is what we are
seeing.<BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><A
href="http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/animalsAndPlants/noxious-weeds/laws/list.aspx"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/animalsAndPlants/noxious-weeds/laws/list.aspx</SPAN></A><BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Katie
Fite<BR>Western Watersheds Project<BR><A
href="mailto:katie@westernwatersheds.org"
target=_blank>katie@westernwatersheds.org</A><BR><BR> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's
Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion
of the individual posting the message. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P>No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com/" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version:
10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3774 - Release Date:
07/19/11<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR style="COLOR: #aca899" align=center width="100%" noShade SIZE=1>
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<P>No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com/" target=_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR>Version:
10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3774 - Release Date:
07/19/11<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's
Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org">APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion of
the individual posting the message.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
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<A></A>
<P class=avgcert align=left color="#000000">No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus
Database: 1518/3787 - Release Date: 07/25/11</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>