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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>Dominic Maze, friends, and
APWG:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>Dominic, I mostly agree with your
observations, but here is what I was stimulated to write (it's more than
colloquial; it's a stream-of-consciousness first draft, far from acceptable for
publication).</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=4></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>I do not think that ecology is a "soft"
doctrine as opposed to a <EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">science,
</SPAN></EM>as I consider the heart of science to be the asking of questions
about Nature or "reality." I do think those who call themselves "ecologists"
worry too much about "standing" and not enough about just getting on with the
work and damn the torpedoes, the slings and arrows of outrageous petulance by
the egocentric. While I might agree with His Pre-eminence’s (Rutherford's)
comment about botany as taxonomy to some degree (to the extent that some
"botanists" DO seem to limit themselves to pursuing taxonomic glory more
than understanding of Nature), but have no use for sniffy remarks like his in
all contexts (I don't know in what context he made the remark, but it seems
needlessly rude). </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>My private position is "Screw the
posturers!" Ignore such stuff. If one is intimidated by physics, join the club
(Einstein, Feynman). But courage often consists of ignoring posturing (and Lordy
knows we are surrounded by such dick-heads.) Academia is drowning in Greek
letters, algorithms, and prissy, ill-founded jargon; what it needs, especially
ecology, is to drop the pretenses and the insecurities that give rise to them,
and get on with the work of understanding what makes Nature tick. Botany is a
helluva lot more than taxonomy. Arguing from authority is a
not-well-enough-known logical fallacy, and too much discussion is colored with
such divergent manipulation. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=4></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>I didn't even know what "ecology" meant
when I started college in 1956, but I had the good fortune to have Lee Haines as
a professor; Haines was a true man for all disciplines, and he taught botany and
ecology together, along with other disciplines as needed. I still use his first
lesson every day--he placed two Petri dishes before us, one with some muck and a
planarian, the other with agar and a bacterial culture, some pipettes,
saline solution, and some pennicilium mold. He taught is how to key out plants,
yes, but he also taught us life zones, succession, and other useful knowledge.
But most of all, he taught us how to think (now known as "critical thinking").
We camped out a lot, and sang around the campfire. Later professors had a high
standard to live up to, as did we students. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>I did turn to the
Executive Order on Invasive Species, and I thought it to be more political bunk
than science. It specifically excluded humans and their livestock and crops.
Science requires honesty and that is simply dishonesty. There would be no
“invasive species” problem if it weren’t for those exclusions. That’s an
outrage. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>I quite agree with Maze
that terms like “ruderal” and “healthy” need to be clarified or eliminated, but
someone has to come up with something better, preferably a family of related
terms that do not contradict each other. I’m not so confident that “new terms
will inevitably arise.” I fear that the confusion will multiply as egocentricity
continues to reign, covering its doubtful tracks with obfuscation and
pseudo-intellectual fog. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>I wasn’t referring to
<I>Impatiens capensis</I><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic">; I meant to
call for clarity of communication, however, far beyond “peers.” (I do, however,
thank Vanderploeg for stimulating my question.) A major problem with the
anti-science, anti-intellectual fever in this country can be laid at the feet of
the academic “peerage.” Recent analysis of the Declaration of Independence has
revealed that <st1:place w:st="on">Jefferson</st1:place> erased “subjects” and
wrote over it “citizens.” Unless there’s a good reason to do so, terminology
should not be reduced to academic jargon—it drives away the curious, the
amateur, yes, even the dilettante. These should be embraced, not shunned. Just
what do truly superior intellects have to fear from the rabble--that they
will climb up the ivy? And they should know what the hell we’re talking
about in “colloquial” terms if possible, presuming clarity. But at
least "we" should know, eh? </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic">I look forward to the definition
of terms that can be widely accepted as the standard for both
colloquial (maybe a glossary?) and scientifically acceptable terms. (And
oh, while you're about it, how about a new term for
"brush?") <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><FONT
size=4>WT</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><FONT
size=4></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><FONT
size=4>PS: I presume that everyone has actually read the recent Davis, et al
paper? </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>“I have sworn eternal
vigilance over every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” –Thomas
Jefferson<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><FONT
size=4>“The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.”
–Albert Einstein<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><o:p><FONT
size=4> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><FONT
size=4>“The suspension of judgment is the highest exercise in intellectual
discipline.” –Raymond Gilmore<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4>----- Original Message -----
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><FONT
size=4><B>From:</B> </FONT><A title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov"><FONT size=4>Maze,
Dominic</FONT></A><FONT size=4> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><B>To:</B> </FONT><A
title=jrandall@email.unc.edu href="mailto:jrandall@email.unc.edu"><FONT
size=4>'Randall, John L'</FONT></A><FONT size=4> ; </FONT><A
title=landrest@cox.net href="mailto:landrest@cox.net"><FONT size=4>Wayne
Tyson</FONT></A><FONT size=4> ; </FONT><A title=wvanderploeg@ameritech.net
href="mailto:wvanderploeg@ameritech.net"><FONT size=4>Wayne
Vanderploeg</FONT></A><FONT size=4> ; </FONT><A
title=katie@westernwatersheds.org
href="mailto:katie@westernwatersheds.org"><FONT size=4>Katie
Fite</FONT></A><FONT size=4> ; </FONT><A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT
size=4>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT size=4> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 19, 2011
2:11 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=4><B>Subject:</B> RE: [APWG]
Terminology still unresolved? Re: Jewelweed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>I
couldn’t agree more, Mr. Tyson, on the importance of using proper (and
well-defined) terminology in any sub-discipline of ecology. After all, ecology
itself has often been considered the “soft” doctrine of the biological
sciences, and any clarification and standardization of terminology is welcome
and necessary to furthering effective research, communication, and
“conservation” (and increasing the relative standing of ecology as a
discipline). When considering ecology’s standing as a science, I am often
reminded of the pre-eminent physicist, Sir Ernest Rutherford’s dismissive
comment of turn of the (last)-century botany (and I paraphrase), “Botany is
fine; it is about as difficult a science as stamp-collecting.”
[ouch!]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
size=4> I too, turn to the definition of invasive
species posted below and often point out that a species which escapes at a
constricted scale and doesn’t persist in the environment (displays low
population fitness) is not (to me) “invasive” (and I am reluctant to use term
even though it is part of my job title!). However, at what temporal and
spatial scales do we arbitrarily choose to demarcate as a threshold for
“invasive” or not? Defining populations as “r” or “K” were once valuable
in the budding discipline of population biology and ecology; and while still
taught in Universities, these have similar limitations; just as the once
useful definitions “apex” or “healthy” (or even trying to fit population
dynamics to a Lotka-Voltera” model) do. These limitations create
problems such as your (common) distinction between “ruderal” and “healthy”
(does this mean that all “ruderal” systems are “unhealthy”?). As a
result, these terms and approaches fall from favor and the supporting concepts
evolve to better describe the wide range of dynamics we observe and
record. New terms will inevitably
arise.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>As to
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Impatiens capensis</SPAN></I>: I’m
not sure if your last two sentences, “It appears that some believe there is no
distinction. I would appreciate any correction, definitions, or suggestions
that will bring discipline to communication about these subjects.” refers to
the present discussion about this species. If it does, I would suggest
reading the excellent Zika papers below. If it doesn’t, and speaks to
the larger issue of communication among peers, then perhaps the lack of
distinction stems from colloquial discussions such as this one. Either way,
your point is a very important one that bears consideration and we would all
be wise to retain it.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
size=4>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT size=4><B><FONT
face=Calibri color=green><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Dominic
Maze</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Calibri color=green><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"> |
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Calibri color=gray><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Invasive Species
Coordinator </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Calibri color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT size=4><FONT face=Calibri
color=gray><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">City of
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><ns0:place
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><ns0:City
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><FONT color=gray><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray">Portland</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:City></ns0:City></ns0:place><FONT
color=gray><SPAN style="COLOR: gray"> Environmental
Services<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><FONT size=4><ns0:Street
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><ns0:address
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><FONT color=gray><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray">1120 SW 5th
Avenue</SPAN></FONT></st1:address></st1:Street></ns0:address></ns0:Street><FONT
color=gray><SPAN style="COLOR: gray">, Room
1000<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><ns0:place
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><ns0:City
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT color=gray size=4><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray">Portland</SPAN></FONT></st1:City></ns0:City></st1:place><FONT
size=4><FONT color=gray><SPAN style="COLOR: gray">, </SPAN></FONT><ns0:State
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><st1:State
w:st="on"><FONT color=gray><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray">Oregon</SPAN></FONT></st1:State></ns0:State><FONT
color=gray><SPAN style="COLOR: gray"> </SPAN></FONT><ns0:PostalCode
w:endInsDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="dmaze"
w:insDate="2011-07-19T13:08:00Z" w:insAuthor="dmaze"><st1:PostalCode
w:st="on"><FONT color=gray><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray">97204</SPAN></FONT></st1:PostalCode></ns0:PostalCode></FONT></ns0:place><FONT
color=gray><SPAN
style="COLOR: gray"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri
color=gray><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><FONT
size=4>p: (503) 823-4899<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">f:
(503) 823-5344</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><A
href="mailto:dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov">dominic.maze@portlandoregon..gov</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Calibri color=gray><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
Randall, John L [mailto:jrandall@email.unc.edu] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:22
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Wayne Tyson; Wayne
Vanderploeg; Maze, Dominic; Katie Fite;
apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [APWG] Terminology still
unresolved? Re: Jewelweed</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><FONT size=4>I
always turn to the Executive Order on Invasive Species for my “invasive
species” definition, which is: “an alien species* whose introduction does or
is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health.” As
for those plant species that occur/specialize in disturbed areas – I generally
call these either native or alien weeds. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><FONT
size=4>(*”Alien species" means, with respect to a particular ecosystem, any
species, including its seeds, eggs, spores, or other biological material
capable of propagating that species, that is not native to that ecosystem.)
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><FONT
size=4>Johnny Randall<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri color=black size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=4>
apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Wayne Tyson<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, July 19, 2011 2:37
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Wayne Vanderploeg;
Maze, Dominic; Katie Fite; apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [APWG] Terminology still
unresolved? Re: Jewelweed<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hello
all,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Is there anyone who acknowledges
(or would it be simpler to say "does not acknowledge") that there is at least
a phenomenological difference between "alien" species that are largely
restricted to disturbed sites and those which "invade" healthy ecosystems?
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I realize that some of the
terminology used here is debatable too, and such discussion are worth having,
but it would appear, if "invasion ecology" is to be taken seriously as a
sub-discipline of ecology, that clarity of terminology is vital to clear
communication. Time was, colonization referred to any movement of an organism
into a "new" location, plants (what about animals?) that were restricted to
disturbed areas were termed "ruderal," and "alien" organisms that colonized
healthy/undisturbed ecosystems were called "invasive."
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It appears that some believe
there is no distinction. I would appreciate any correction, definitions, or
suggestions that will bring discipline to communication about these subjects.
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">WT</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=4>----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><FONT size=4><B><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=wvanderploeg@ameritech.net
href="mailto:wvanderploeg@ameritech.net">Wayne Vanderploeg</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4><B><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov
href="mailto:Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov">Maze, Dominic</A> ; <A
title=katie@westernwatersheds.org
href="mailto:katie@westernwatersheds.org">Katie Fite</A> ; <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4><B><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday, July
19, 2011 10:24 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4><B><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re: [APWG]
Jewelweed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=4>Hello All, <BR><BR>I don't usually make
comment to this group....I generally browse this list to see what new issues
are popping up. As a biologist/ecologist/naturalist/land manager for
31 years in the Chicago area with the Forest Preserve District of Cook
County, I have seen this plant come and go. Deer do browse it heavily
and tend to prefer it over most other plants. It does well in
disturbed areas where the soil is rich, moist and semi shaded. I have
always viewed it as sensitive plant that is easily displaced by weeds and
never thought of it as a problem plant in the Chicago area. The fact
that it is spreading prolifically in other areas where it typically does not
occur could be a symptom of a bigger problem. I would expect it to
disappear when those problems are discovered and solved. <BR><BR>Wayne
Vanderploeg<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
"Maze, Dominic" <Dominic.Maze@portlandoregon.gov><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Katie Fite
<katie@westernwatersheds.org>; "apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
<apwg@lists.plantconservation.org><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tue, July 19, 2011 11:42:18
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [APWG]
Jewelweed</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Katie et
alia,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Impatiens capensis</SPAN></I> is, in my
experience, a problematic species here west of the Cascade Range in the
Pacific NW. The densities of this sp. are pretty amazing with the
understory of riparian corridors often dominated by it. I’ve been
seeing more and more of it in the Willamette Valley and surrounding ranges
here in Oregon with seemingly little attention paid to
it.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Interestingly, some land managers still consider this species native here on
the West Coast, probably due to confusion with our native, <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">I. ecalcarata</SPAN></I> in some older floras and
field guides. Ed Alverson of TNC wrote a short comment in reply to a
posting on <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">I. capensis</SPAN></I> at the
Botany Photo of the Day website:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face="Arial Narrow"
color=#333333 size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'">“Impatiens
capensis is an introduced and invasive species in the Pacific Northwest ,
west of the Cascades. Peter Zika addressed this issue in a 2006 paper, "The
status of Impatiens capensis (Balsaminaceae) on
the</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#333333><SPAN
style="COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Narrow'"><BR><FONT size=4><SPAN
class=apple-style-span>Pacific Northwest coast", published in the Journal of
the Torrey Botanical Club, vol. 133 pp. 593-600. In fact, I. capensis is
spreading into the habitats of the uncommon native I. ecalcarata west of the
Cascades, and the two species are hybridizing. This has created a situation
where the native species is potentially being out-competed by both the
introduced species and by their hybrids. Zika has published another paper on
the hybrid, which he has named Impatiens x pacifica , see "Impatiens x
pacifica (Balsaminaceae), a New Hybrid jewelweed from the Pacific Northwest
Coast of North America", Novon vol. 16, pp. 443-448,
2006.</SPAN>”</FONT></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Add this spp. to
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">I. glandulifera</SPAN></I> (a big
problem) and <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">I. balfourii</SPAN></I> (an
escaping species which may be a problem in the future), and we’ve got our
hands full out here with the touch-me-nots.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT size=4><B><FONT
face=Calibri color=green><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Dominic
Maze</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Calibri color=green><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"> |
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Calibri color=gray><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Invasive Species
Coordinator </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">City
of Portland Environmental Services</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">1120
SW 5th Avenue, Room 1000</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">Portland, Oregon
97204</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">p: (503)
823-4899</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri">f:
(503) 823-5344</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Calibri color=gray
size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: gray; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><A
href="mailto:dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov"
target=_blank>dominic.maze@portlandoregon.gov</A></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Katie Fite<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 18, 2011 5:46
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [APWG]
Jewelweed</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri"><BR><FONT size=4>Has anyone
had any experience with jewelweed (Impatiens) native to the eastern U. S.
becoming weedy in valley marsh habitats in the intermountain West? <BR><BR>I
see that jewelweed <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Impatiens
capensis</SPAN></I> (orange jewelweed) is listed as a King County (WA)
“Weed of Concern”. <BR><BR>This species is shown as having a yellow flowered
form, which is what we are seeing.<BR><BR></FONT><A
href="http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/animalsAndPlants/noxious-weeds/laws/list.aspx"
target=_blank><FONT
size=4>http://www.kingcounty.gov/environment/animalsAndPlants/noxious-weeds/laws/list.aspx</FONT></A><BR><BR><FONT
size=4>Katie Fite<BR>Western Watersheds
Project<BR>katie@westernwatersheds.org<BR><BR> </FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=4> <o:p></o:p></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><FONT
size=4>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's Alien Plant
Working Group mailing
list<BR>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org<BR>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org<BR><BR>Disclaimer<BR>Any
requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion of
the individual posting the message. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=avgcert><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG -
<A href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus
Database: 1518/3774 - Release Date:
07/19/11<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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<A></A>
<P class=avgcert align=left color="#000000">No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus
Database: 1518/3774 - Release Date: 07/19/11</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>