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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Megan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have to say I truly concur with Wayne
Tyson in his usual articulate and thoughtful response. I am also very curious
as to where you hope to land with additional info on this topic. Do you
have a hypothesis that weeds may supply at least some “ecological
services” and then are you interested in seeing if the hypothesis is
valid or perhaps not? And yes, the difficult issue is how myopic are we
as observers being in a quest to answer the inquiry and how would the info
pertaining to our inquiry look if we broadened our investigations? Would our
initial answers change? Such as, what species have declined while mourning
doves have flourished and is that an acceptable ecological consequence even
though mourning doves have been given additional “ecological services”?
While we can perhaps extricate them out of their particular ecosystem in our
thought processes, as we as humans do, what about all the other birds, mammals,
insects, soil flora and fauna, invertebrates, etc. that have suffered within
the same system because they have in fact lost “ecological services”?
Shouldn’t we mention that in the same breath? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My thought is always that we as humans
looking at the pain and suffering and loss we have created in the natural world
while taking care of ourselves, have some defense mechanisms that are bound to
kick in to handle the pain and guilt and overwhelming enormity and inability to
fix what we have done. I feel like one of those defense responses is to
try and dig for anything positive that just might come out of our otherwise harmful
activities or the consequences of our activities. I certainly understand
any of us going in this direction. But there is always the difficulty of
people ending up with partial answers. Someone could latch on to the fact
the willow flycatcher has managed to nest in tamarisk, while ignoring the rest
of the tamarisk story, one I need not repeat here. I guess I have a
problem with that somehow. Oh, I think this question you have is a tough one
and would and should take a great deal of time to investigate! Good luck!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#004080" face="Maiandra GD"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Maiandra GD";color:#004080'>Lisa Tasker</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#004080" face="Maiandra GD"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Maiandra GD";color:#004080'>Principal
Ecologist</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#004080" face="Maiandra GD"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Maiandra GD";color:#004080'>E.M.
Ecological, LLC</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2
color="#004080" face="Maiandra GD"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Maiandra GD";color:#004080'>Carbondale</span></font></st1:City><font size=2
color="#004080" face="Maiandra GD"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Maiandra GD";color:#004080'>, <st1:State w:st="on">CO</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">81623</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Wayne Tyson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 27, 2010
10:53 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Bowes, Megan;
APWG@lists.plantconservation.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [APWG] ecological
services of weeds?</span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear Megan:</span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The "ecological services of weeds" issue comes up
now and then, and it commonly begins and ends with confusion, or worse,
presumptions about "facts" that lead to "conclusions" that
are rarely, if ever, the whole story. So it is a challenge to answer your
question responsibly. </span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>One can cherry-pick cases like one you cite with respect to
many "weed" species and come up with "answers" that
spotlight a "fact" that is as impressive as it is misleading. </span></font><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>"Ecology" is about the <em><i><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>whole</span></font></i></em> story, not just part of
it, so the fact that the Southwest willow flycatcher, for example,
"uses" tamarisk, does not necessarily mean that the bird is better
off as a result of the tamarisk than it was before its original habitat was
displaced by the tamarisk. If, say, a group of humans lost their homes, they
would gravitate to the best alternative they could find, even if it was nothing
but a bunch of drain pipes or improvised lean-to shelters. </span></font><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So the flycatchers may appear to be receiving
"ecological services" from tamarisk to us, but the "ecological
question" is not whether they have adapted to an altered habitat, but what
that means in comparison to the alternative of the habitat under which
it evolved and prospered. And it says nothing about how countless other
species have been affected by the change. </span></font><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Some indigenous species have "prospered" because
of shifts toward alien "weeds." The mourning dove, for example, has
"enjoyed" a population explosion because of alien plant
introductions, including "crops" and "weeds." But this says
nothing about the tradeoffs, the sacrifices that other species have had
to make to produce the population boom in dove populations. </span></font><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>While "weeds" do perform "ecological"
functions as a matter of "fact," whether or not one can truthfully
term them "services" may be another matter. </span></font><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>WT</span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>PS: I would be interesting to know where you're going with
this. </span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0pt 0pt 0pt 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:BowesM@bouldercolorado.gov" title="BowesM@bouldercolorado.gov">Bowes,
Megan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:'APWG@lists.plantconservation.org'"
title="APWG@lists.plantconservation.org">'APWG@lists.plantconservation.org'</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, April 26, 2010
2:14 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [APWG] ecological
services of weeds?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I'd
like to inquire if anyone out there has experience with the "ecological
services of weeds". The Southwest willow flycatcher and tamarisk is
a classic example. We'd like to hear from researchers and land managers
alike, and would especially like any information about examples with other
taxonomic groups (herps, mammals, etc.). Thanks for any help with this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Megan
Bowes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>City
of <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Boulder</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Open
Space and Mountain Parks Department<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><font size=2
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>66 South Cherryvale Road</span></font></st1:Street><font
size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>, <st1:City w:st="on">Boulder</st1:City>,
<st1:State w:st="on">Colorado</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">80303</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:address><font
size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-weight:bold'>720.564.2084</span></font></b><font size=2><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> (voice) 720.564.2072 (fax)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="mailto:bowesm@bouldercolorado.gov">bowesm@bouldercolorado.gov</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<br>
APWG@lists.plantconservation.org<br>
http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org<br>
<br>
Disclaimer<br>
Any requests, advice or opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY the opinion
of the individual posting the message. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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