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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I hope Tasker will not tax us with generalities,
thus tasking us with trying to figure out what he specifically
means. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>I am dubious about acronyms, and the catchy labels
from which they spring, as they tend to become buzzwords that either lose their
original meaning or debase the terms of which they are composed. "Process flow
charts" and other impressive devices, when broken down into what they really
say, don't amount to much. The "integrated" aspects of IVM say little or nothing
about ecosystem function and lack specificity with respect to post-treatment
performance. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>This is not to say that ecosystems should not be
"managed," but herbicides of any kind tend to be used under the rather
simplistic logic, "Weeds bad, kill weeds, keep killing weeds." That's simply not
demonstrably good enough; virtually all of the cases I have seen rely upon a
time-limited set of general observations (mostly impressive photos) or "surveys"
that do not reveal the long-term implications of ecosystem function. For
example, if one sprays herbicides on weeds, impressive results will follow and
be photographed. Such "data" don't prove anything with respect to ecosystem
function and "health." "Vegetation management" has too long been a euphemism for
killing plants indiscriminately. I would like to see the details of an IVM
program that truly integrates all relevant science. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>To truly advance this important discussion, it will
be necessary to establish a tradition of being directly responsive to points
made in a sequence that moves quickly from generalization to theoretical
foundations to evidence, all with lines of relevance clearly evident and
assessment, action, and consequences feedback loops that fully describe the
phenomena, not sell them short. Specific examples which have been sufficiently
researched by independent entities and replicated by other disinterested (out of
the money loop) parties in accordance with the basic principles of good science.
Too much is at stake for the foxes to be in charge of the henhouses--which
should be transparent and open to all for inspection. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>WT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4>PS: I will soon be off the internet for at least a
month. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:Alan.V.Tasker@aphis.usda.gov"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Alan.V.Tasker@aphis.usda.gov</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>APWG@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:18
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [APWG] Herbicide Application
Techniques Prohibit Re: NEWS: Studyfinds one-time herbicide use decreased native
plants, may have increased invasive plants</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Tremendous progress has been made in IVM and in more eco
friendly<BR>> herbicides in the last 16 years.<BR>> <BR>> Alan V.
Tasker, Ph.D.<BR>> National Noxious Weed Program Manager<BR>> <BR>>
USDA Animal & Plant Health Inspection Service<BR>> Plant Protection
& Quarantine<BR>> Emergency and Domestic Programs<BR>> Plant Pathogen
& Weed Programs<BR>> <BR>> (301)
734-5708<BR>> Fax (301) 734-8584<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>>
Bill
Stringer
<BR>>
<</FONT><A href="mailto:bstrngr@clemson"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>bstrngr@clemson</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>.
<BR>>
edu>
To
<BR>>
Sent
by:
"Karen Adair" <</FONT><A href="mailto:kadair@TNC.ORG"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>kadair@TNC.ORG</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>,
<BR>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:apwg-bounces@list"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>apwg-bounces@list</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2> "Wayne Tyson"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:landrest@cox.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>landrest@cox.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>,
<BR>>
s.plantconservati <</FONT><A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>,
<BR>>
on.org
<</FONT><A href="mailto:native-plants@lists.plantconservat"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>native-plants@lists.plantconservat</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<BR>>
ion.org>
<BR>>
cc
<BR>>
09/24/2009
01:28
<BR>>
PM
Subject
<BR>>
Re: [APWG] Herbicide Application
<BR>>
Techniques Prohibit Re: NEWS:
<BR>>
Studyfinds one-time herbicide use
<BR>>
decreased native plants, may have
<BR>>
increased invasive
plants
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I'm with you, Karen!!<BR>>
<BR>> Bill Stringer<BR>> <BR>> At 12:53 PM 9/24/2009, Karen Adair
wrote:<BR>> A one-time application of such a
virulent herbicide as Tordon without<BR>>
follow-up is irresponsible. Given that the application was made
16<BR>>
years<BR>> ago, I suspect that Tordon's effects
were not as commonly known at<BR>>
that<BR>> point. I'd also add that the practice
of herbicide application as a<BR>> management
technique was not as common 16 years ago as it is
today<BR>>
and<BR>> the necessity for follow-up was often
equally misunderstood.<BR>> <BR>> All this
study shows is that man is prone to making mistakes and
that<BR>> those mistakes can have grave
consequences. It doesn't show that<BR>>
avoiding general spraying is right, it shows that the misuse of
an<BR>> herbicide is wrong. The problems
associated with "the use of general<BR>>
spraying as a weed-control technique" are human-derived. This
study<BR>> supports why land management
activities need to be carried out by<BR>>
professionals who understand the need for a thorough,
intelligent,<BR>>
and<BR>> committed approach.<BR>>
<BR>> Science can never prove something to be
right, only highlight when<BR>> something has
failed. "No amount of experimentation can ever prove
me<BR>> right; a single experiment can prove me
wrong." Albert Einstein<BR>> <BR>> I will
gladly repeat and repeat: "I hereby eternally swear that
I<BR>>
shall<BR>> eschew irresponsible methodology and
application in weed-control<BR>>
techniques."<BR>> <BR>> Karen<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> [ </FONT><A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>] On Behalf Of Wayne<BR>>
Tyson<BR>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009
11:05 AM<BR>> To: </FONT><A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>;<BR>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Subject: [APWG] Herbicide Application
Techniques Prohibit Re: NEWS:<BR>> Studyfinds
one-time herbicide use decreased native plants,may
have<BR>> increased invasive plants<BR>>
<BR>> AT LAST! But SIXTEEN YEARS to
declare the obvious that can be<BR>>
demonstrated by one simple experiment?<BR>>
<BR>> Actually, I'm not surprised. But let us
all repeat and repeat: "I<BR>>
hereby<BR>> eternally swear that I shall eschew
the use of general spraying as a<BR>>
weed-control technique."<BR>> <BR>> This is
not to say that direct application of the minimal lethal
dose<BR>>
by<BR>> wick, by brush, by injection, by highly
directed, low-pressure<BR>>
pneumatically-driven application to target plants only should
be<BR>> abandoned.<BR>>
<BR>> WT<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>> From: "Olivia Kwong" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:plant@plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>plant@plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>;<BR>> <</FONT><A
href="mailto:native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>native-plants@lists.plantconservation.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> Sent: Thursday, September 24,
2009 6:39 AM<BR>> Subject: [APWG] NEWS: Study
finds one-time herbicide use decreased<BR>>
native plants, may have increased invasive plants<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> > </FONT><A
href="http://www.montana.edu/cpa/news/nwview.php?article=7522"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.montana.edu/cpa/news/nwview.php?article=7522</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>
><BR>> > Study finds one-time herbicide
use decreased native plants, may<BR>>
have<BR>> > increased invasive plants
September 22, 2009 -- Melynda Harrison,<BR>>
MSU<BR>> > News
Service<BR>>
><BR>> > Matt Rinella, faculty in Animal
and Range Science at Montana State<BR>> >
University and an ecologist at the Fort Keogh
Agricultural<BR>>
Experiment<BR>> > Station in Miles City,
recently published the results of a
16-year<BR>> > study in the journal
Ecological Applications.<BR>>
><BR>> > See the link above for the full
press release text.<BR>>
><BR>>
><BR>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>>
> PCA's Alien Plant Working Group mailing
list<BR>> > </FONT><A
href="mailto:APWG@lists.plantconservation.org"><FONT face=Arial
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face=Arial
size=2>http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantco</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> >
nservation.org<BR>>
><BR>> >
Disclaimer<BR>> > Any requests, advice or
opinions posted to this list reflect ONLY<BR>>
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Disclaimer<BR>> Any requests, advice or
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message.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> William C. Stringer<BR>> President<BR>>
South Carolina Native Plant Society<BR>> </FONT><A
href="http://www.scnps.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>www.scnps.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>> <BR>> PO Box
491<BR>> Norris, SC 29667<BR>> <BR>> Clemson University<BR>>
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href="mailto:bstrngr@clemson.edu"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>bstrngr@clemson.edu</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>> <BR>>
<BR>> “Go my Sons, burn your books. Buy yourself stout shoes. Get
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and the<BR>> deepest recesses of the earth. In this way and no other
will you find true<BR>> knowledge of things and their properties.”<BR>>
<BR>> Peter Severinus, 16th. century Dane educator<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
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