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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>APWG: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I have [[inserted thus WT]] my comments in response to Dr
Lair below. I appreciate his sentiments and generosity in sharing information. I
hope the APWG community can pursue this discussion objectively and effectively.
I, for one, am not arguing "against" the beetle, and certainly not "for"
ignoring <EM>Tamarix </EM>infestations. For something as frustratingly
widespread as <EM>Tamarix</EM>, it is little wonder that there is a heartfelt
desire for a "silver bullet." I certainly hope the bug is the solution, but I
still would like to see more than generalized promises from the experts.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Despite a history of failures (doing the same thing over
and over and expecting a different result), I believe the primary reason lies in
inadequate methodology, not "competitiveness" when it comes to restoring
infested sites to indigenous species. <EM>Tamarix</EM> always will be with us,
but it doesn't have to be accepted as a dominant species in areas where
indigenous species have the right conditions to thrive. Consider the fact that,
while <EM>Tamarix</EM> is a tough species well-adapted to certain kinds of
extreme environments, many indigenous species also are tough species adapted to
the same environments. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A little paradigm shift might be useful. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I refer all to my original post. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>WT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>----- Original Message
----- <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=klair@harveyecology.com
href="mailto:klair@harveyecology.com">Ken Lair</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=landrest@cox.net
href="mailto:landrest@cox.net">landrest@cox.net</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:58
AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> RE: [APWG] NEWS: Invasive Saltcedar
Triggers Lively Debate<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Mr. Tyson,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>As a former member of the scientific
team (comprised of ARS, APHIS, USBR, USFWS, as well as several universities and
state agencies) that has been dealing with the release of the saltcedar leaf
beetle (<I>Diorhabda</I> spp.) since the 80’s, I would like to briefly address
your concerns noted below, including some references to scientists and their
published literature that perhaps you have not pursued. I can appreciate
your concern over the release of a non-native control agent, as it echoes the
thoughts of many. However, a few things should be brought to light (again,
briefly here, with follow-up left to you).<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>By far, the <I>Diorhabda</I> leaf beetle
has been the most researched and evaluated biocontrol agent, for
host-specificity and native plant and crop safety under quarantine and
controlled conditions, of any insect ever brought into this country for the
control of an invasive plant. It has been thus studied since 1986.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[While I do not disbelieve this
generalization, I have no way of knowing what “most” means in terms of the
issues I raised.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>I would refer you to the following
scientists (a selection among many), who can provide you with ample literature
and experience developed with this beetle and its release since
1986:<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[Thank you. However, please understand
that my concerns are based on the generalizations of the “press-release” as
apparently the only vehicle which the organizations and individuals involved
think is necessary for communication to the public and interested individuals
and groups outside those organizations. I gave examples of areas of knowledge
which, according to my understanding, should be considered in such
investigations; my purpose in posting my remarks was to elicit comments on their
validity and to determine whether or not, if valid, they had been performed in
the 23 years of extensive research. WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Dr. Jack
DeLoach<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Agricultural Research
Service<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Temple</SPAN></st1:City><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">, <st1:State
w:st="on">TX</st1:State></SPAN></st1:place><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=1336"><FONT
size=3>http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=1336</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Dr. Ray Carruthers
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Agricultural Research
Service<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Albany</SPAN></st1:City><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">, <st1:State
w:st="on">CA</st1:State></SPAN></st1:place><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=894"><FONT
size=3>http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=894</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Dr. Tom
Dudley,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Riparian Invasive Research Laboratory -
Marine Science Institute<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">University</SPAN></st1:PlaceType><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> of <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">California</st1:PlaceName> – <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Santa Barbara</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Santa
Barbara</SPAN></st1:City><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">, <st1:State
w:st="on">CA</st1:State></SPAN></st1:place><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="http://rivrlab.msi.ucsb.edu/lab_webpage_019.htm"><FONT
size=3>http://rivrlab.msi.ucsb.edu/lab_webpage_019.htm</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Dr. Dan Bean,
Director<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Palisade</SPAN></st1:PlaceName><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></SPAN></st1:place><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Insectary<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Colorado Department of
Agriculture<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Grand
Junction</SPAN></st1:City><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">, <st1:State
w:st="on">CO</st1:State></SPAN></st1:place><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Agriculture-Main/CDAG/1167928159775"><FONT
size=3>http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Agriculture-Main/CDAG/1167928159775</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>The closest relative to the
<I>Tamarix</I> genus in <st1:place w:st="on">North America</st1:place> is
<I>Frankenia</I>, to which the beetle has shown essentially no preference for
herbivory in controlled choice tests under quarantine and in controlled field
trials. Without <I>Tamarix</I> as a food source (which is unlikely, given
its abundance and distribution throughout western riparian systems), the beetle
populations die.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[Do I presume correctly that <I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Frankenia</I> was the only species other
than <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Tamarix</I> spp. “tested?” Was the
assumption made that <I>Diorhabda</I> spp. could only “shift” from <I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Tamarix </I>spp. to <I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Frankenia</I> spp. and no others? Was
taxonomic proximity the sole consideration? How long did tests run (longest and
shortest period)? WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>The herbivory behavior of the beetle is
as close to a “scientific certainty” as can be achieved in this discipline, even
in regard to possible future “evolution” to a different “prey base”.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[When one implies that terminology
might be inappropriate, it is appropriate and expected that alternative terms
are suggested. Ok, if the above statement is correct, what is the basis for the
certitude? Something a bit more detailed, but short of referring enquiries to
volumes of research that can’t be read and evaluated for years would seem to be
within the ability and mission of qualified experts. Did the research include,
and find, that this organism is incapable of evolving or shifting into a
population that can survive on another substrate/food source? Is it known to a
scientific certainty that organisms (including beetles), once having evolved a
species-specific relationship with a single plant species will become extinct
once that plant species is no longer available? To what degree, in the natural
habitat of this beetle, does it achieve “control” of <EM>Tamarix </EM>spp.? What
level of control of Tamarix spp. is expected once the <I>Diorhabda</I> spp.
populations are established? Is more than one species of this beetle being
introduced? Why? WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>One can postulate that there may be less
“scientific certainty” that bees or wasps (or perhaps even genetically less
dynamic animals such as dogs) may, at some distant evolutionary point, evolve
into predators that prefer humans as a prey base. The argument and the
rationale are essentially the same – there are no “guarantees”, but there are
acceptable levels of scientific certainty, within which the beetle currently
falls.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[I suppose that’s true of straw-men
too. How, briefly, are “acceptable levels” determined?
WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>More relevant questions, which many
agencies are currently studying vigorously,
include:<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.4in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.2in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .4in"><FONT
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Can native riparian plant
communities that have been displaced by saltcedar over time be re-established
(sufficient for site stability, habitat values, and water conservation) at the
same rate at which saltcedar may be controlled, either by the biocontrol agent
<I>Diorhabda</I> or by any other means (e.g., mechanically and/or
herbicidally)? This is particularly an issue on arid, saline,
upper-terrace floodplain sites in the desert SW that exhibit poor hydrology and
are not amenable to re-establishment of more mesic cottonwood and willow
communities. This is my area of specialization.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[What about ecologically? While I do
know of cases where in-planting of indigenous overstory has failed, the failures
(of which I am aware) were more due to failure to properly reintroduce the
appropriate indigenous species rather than their being, for example,
“outcompeted” by <EM>Tamarix</EM>, a commonly-used fairy-tale of an excuse.
WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.4in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.2in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .4in"><FONT
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"><SPAN
style="mso-list: Ignore">·<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Are athel trees
(<I>Tamarix aphylla</I> - the relatively non-invasive tree form of saltcedar
that is commonly used for shade trees in desert SW developments – schools,
recreational areas, homes) safe from the insect? Again, the research under
quarantine and controlled conditions over many years has demonstrated that it is
considered safe from herbivory if any of the various species of the shrub form
of saltcedar is present in the region (which is typically the case).
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[What is it about <I>Tamarix aphylla
</I><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-style: italic">that makes it resistant to
<I>Diorhabda</I></SPAN> spp.?]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>I also cringe at the thought or
suggestion, promulgated by some of the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Arizona</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> school of thought, that because
saltcedar is so plentiful, we should consider it as a “naturalized” plant with
benign attributes, much like Kentucky bluegrass or bermudagrass. With
aggressive invasives (such as saltcedar), this was the liaise fare attitude
taken by many people, land managers and lay public alike, years ago toward
knapweeds, leafy spurge, cheatgrass, yellow starthistle, kudzu, and many other
invasives. As a result, we now have hundreds of millions of acres
dominated by these invasives, at the expense of native habitat and other
ecological values. It’s too bad that as humans, we haven’t “evolved” past
this attitude to fully understand the dire threat these invasives pose because
of their “seediness” and related invasive attributes.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[My comments are not rooted in this
school of thought. It is clear that saltcedar has effective means for spreading
to substrates to which it is ideally adapted—mile after riparian mile and other
less-likely locations where its seeds can find the right conditions. It is less
clear why there are superficially similar-appearing conditions which are not
dominated by <EM>Tamarix </EM>spp. If Dr Liar is working on less-than-ideal <I
style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Tamarix</I> sites, comprehensive studies of
the ecotones at the edges of those sites must have been done, yielding useful
data. WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Again, I understand and appreciate the
concern about introduced biocontrol agents, and we should devote energy to
providing maximum assurance that they are safe and effective. Releases of
the insect should be well-reasoned and designed in relation to site
characteristics and the ability of a site to recover (naturally or assisted) to
native conditions. In my opinion, the saltcedar leaf beetle qualifies in
this regard. I would be glad to address further questions you may have,
but the true experts for the insect release are listed above.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>[[I think we should shake this out at
this level before bugging the experts. I am not unalterably opposed to the
introduction of “pure” populations of predator organisms, even if all they will
do is retard <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Tamarix</I> stands and
minimize their advance. But if alternative means (restoring healthy ecosystems)
will get the job done to a similar extent with less risk, so much the better.
Again, I think the researchers should do a better job of informing and
justifying beyond authoritative generalizations.
WT]]<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
size=3><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Kenneth D. Lair,
Ph.D. <BR>Associate Restoration Ecologist / Restoration Ecology Division
Head<BR><B>H. T. Harvey & Associates | Ecological Consultants</B>
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
w:st="on"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>7815 N.
Palm Avenue Suite 310</FONT></SPAN></st1:address></st1:Street><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3> | <st1:City
w:st="on">Fresno</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">93711</st1:PostalCode> <BR><st1:place w:st="on">Main</st1:place>
559.476.3160<BR>Direct 559.476.3162<BR>Fax
559.476.3170<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=3>Cell
559.930.8595<BR></FONT><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><A
href="mailto:klair@harveyecology.com"><FONT
size=3>klair@harveyecology.com</FONT></A><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><A
href="../Documents%20and%20Settings/klair/Application%20Data/Microsoft/Signatures/www.harveyecology.com"><FONT
size=3>www.harveyecology.com</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
size=3> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Jeff Davis <BR>Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:29
AM<BR>To: Ken Lair<BR>Subject: Re: [APWG] NEWS: Invasive Saltcedar Triggers
Lively Debate<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>From: "Wayne
Tyson" <landrest@cox.net><o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>To:
<apwg@lists.plantconservation.org><o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>Sent: Monday,
August 24, 2009 10:41 PM<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>Subject:
Biological control of invasive species by import of alien species
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>Re: [APWG] NEWS:
Invasive Saltcedar Triggers Lively Debate<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>
APWG:<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> Much as I
would like to see the truly invasive "saltcedars" sent back
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> where they
came from, we're probably stuck with them--they're just too
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>
seedy.<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> Much as I
would like to see a savior, even in the form of a bug, the
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>
true-believers ("Now land managers are adding new biological control
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> agents to
their arsenal by releasing saltcedar leaf beetles (Diorhabda
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> elongata)
imported from <st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region> and
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Greece</st1:place></st1:country-region>. The small insects strip
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> saltcedar of
its leaves, while ignoring native vegetation." <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>
http://www.wssa.net/WSSA/PressRoom/WSSA_SaltCedar.htm ) in insect-messiahs
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> are at it
again. These little buggers may "ignore" native vegetation for a
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> while, have
they been DEMONSTRATED in a peer-reviewed manner with <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> replicated
experiments to have left every species indigenous to the <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> <st1:place
w:st="on">Western Hemisphere</st1:place> to continue to do so? I await the
evidence, and I <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> should not
be expected to chase it down from a press-release.<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> A more
serious question remains to be answered--do we know, to a <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> "scientific
certainty," that such imported populations cannot and will not
<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> evolve to
survive on other prey?<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>
WT<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> -----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> From:
"Olivia Kwong" <plant@plantconservation.org><o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> To:
<apwg@lists.plantconservation.org><o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> Sent:
Monday, August 24, 2009 7:27 AM<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>> Subject:
[APWG] NEWS: Invasive Saltcedar Triggers Lively Debate<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
http://www.wssa.net/WSSA/PressRoom/WSSA_SaltCedar.htm<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>> Invasive
Saltcedar Triggers Lively Debats Among Weed Scientists and
Land<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
Managers<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
Saltcedar (Tamarix spp.) is an invasive plant that is crowding out
native<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
vegetation and dominating the shorelines of southwestern rivers
and<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>> streams.
But put a room full of weed scientists and land managers <o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
together<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>> to
discuss how to tame the aggressive plant and you'll trigger a
lively<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>> debate
about how -- or even whether -- it should be controlled.<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>> See the
link above for the full text of the press release.<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=3>>><o:p> </o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>> PCA's
Alien Plant Working Group mailing list<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
APWG@lists.plantconservation.org<o:p></o:p></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3>>>
http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org<o:p></o:p></FONT></P></FONT></DIV><![if !supportLists]><![endif]><![if !supportLists]><![endif]></BODY></HTML>