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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anita and Forum:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It may be that some aliens are here to stay, but
their effects can probably be minimized by ceasing disturbance and letting the
land return as closely as possible to its full carrying capacity. A lot of
primeval forest was cut and cleared in Pennsylvania before the Revolutionary
War, and used and abused since. Anyone who can help return it to a semblance of
its original/potential self-sufficient state is doing the world a favor as well
as themselves. It might be another 200 years or so before the Sylvania recovers
as well as it can, but that's better than to just keep farming 'till it's all
gone. When the forest reaches something like its original state, a lot of the
shade-intolerant invasives will be much reduced, and in between now and then
they should reach a point where they will be in decline. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your point about seed vectors like wind and birds
(and other animals, including Homo sapiens and his/her equipment) is
well taken. The more you can kill, the better, unless the replacement rate is
higher than the rate of reduction, but in any case you will be decreasing the
seed bank and minimizing the transport of seeds to other areas. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=anita.bower@yahoo.com href="mailto:anita.bower@yahoo.com">Anita
Bower</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 14, 2009 5:43
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [APWG] Fw: Ecosystem restoration
and alien species eradication Re:Performance standards to get weed-free and
100% native</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Caveat:
I write as a layperson/amateur in the field of restoration. </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>A
well-coordinated erradication and restoration seems ideal. However, some
of us may happen to own a few acres (15 in my case) and want to increase
natives and decrease aliens, but do not have the interest, resources, time,
energy, knowledge to completely restore the property. I am impressed
with what you are doing, but, do not intend to do the same. </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">In
addition to the limitations expressed above. eradication of aliens is almost
impossible here in southeast Pennsylvania. Vines, such as japanese
honeysuckle and mile-a-minute are very difficult to erradicate, as are
multiflora rose and autumn olive. </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">And,
if eradicated, they come back, brought in on the wind or wing from neighboring
properties.</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Anita
Bower</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">West
Nottingham, PA</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>----- Forwarded Message ----<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Wayne Tyson
<landrest@cox.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, August 14, 2009 1:45:41
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [APWG] Ecosystem
restoration and alien species eradication Re: Performance standards to get
weed-free and 100% native<BR></FONT><BR>Craig and all:<BR><BR>It appears that
other subscribers aren't interested in this topic, but I think we should
continue it anyway, in the hopes that a few will get interested, or that it
will stimulate "lurkers" to think about it. While I'm greatly looking forward
to a possible visit to your project and discussing the particulars with you in
depth, I suggest that we owe it to the subscribers of this list to iron out
the issues that each of us has raised one at a time. I'll be interested in
your ideas about this and those of any who care to join in.<BR><BR>Let's again
revisit the issue of the importance of well-coordinated restoration with
eradication programs. You and I agree on this, I believe, but perhaps there
are others on the list who think that restoration is unnecessary or
irrelevant.<BR><BR>I hope that all who may not agree will post their ideas on
this particular subject and that the discussion sticks to this one subject
before moving on to digressions. I am very interested in where subscribers to
this list stand on this subject. The only way I know to interpret their
silence is to presume that they agree and see no need for discussion or that
they don't want to discuss it for other reasons.<BR><BR>WT<BR><BR><BR>-----
Original Message ----- From: "Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company"
<<A href="mailto:Craig@astreet.com"
ymailto="mailto:Craig@astreet.com">Craig@astreet.com</A>><BR>To: <<A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org"
ymailto="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:23 PM<BR>Subject: [APWG] Performance standards
to get weed-free and 100% native<BR><BR><BR>Dear Wayne and All,<BR><BR>I want
to start my reply, to wax poetically about how nice walking through<BR>a
restored, a weed-free North American native ecosystem can be.<BR><BR>It is
like visiting the Promised Land, a fairy tale land that people talk<BR>about
at annual wildland weed meetings--what would an area look like, that<BR>they
have been weeding for years or decades, if it was not only weed free,<BR>but
was 100% covered with the original pre-Columbian native
ecosystem<BR>understory?<BR><BR>The Shaw property is like a flawless 74-acre
diamond, currently set in an<BR>unending ocean of almost a 100% solid exotic
understory of over 1,000<BR>species of weeds, going 250 miles to the North,
200 miles to the East and<BR>600 miles to the South, to the Mexican
border.<BR><BR>===============<BR><BR>Wayne wrote:<BR>Mowing before seed-set
is a reasonably good practice in some contexts, it<BR>may not always be
practical (e.g., 2:1 slopes, etc.).<BR><BR>Reply: 99% of lower elevation
California is gentle slopes to fairly flat,<BR>so the level to gently sloping
wildlands should be converted first, while<BR>there are still viable native
seeds in the soil seedbank.<BR><BR>If the native seeds in the soil seed bank
are already 35-100 years old, my<BR>big concern is we will not get started in
this conversion back to 100%<BR>native cover process, in time to take
advantage of the viable native seeds<BR>that are lying dormant underneath the
exotics, before they lose their<BR>viability.<BR><BR>The clock is ticking for
these native seeds lying dormant in the soil<BR>seedbanks, waiting for us to
pay attention to them within our and their<BR>lifetimes, otherwise their lives
will be lost forever.<BR><BR>===============<BR><BR>Wayne wrote: Once a
site has been dominated by weeds for a year or two,<BR>not to mention decades
or centuries, there is a considerable buildup of<BR>dormant seeds in the
soil's seed bank. Mowing can't get those, nor can it<BR>get all of the
standing crop.<BR><BR>Reply: Mowing absolutely must to get the standing
crop of weed seeds<BR>before they ripen, for that year, and contrary to
popular belief, you do<BR>not have to be concerned about the dormant weed
seeds in the soil.<BR><BR>What has been happening over the last decades or
hundred years, is that<BR>the percentage cover of the weeds tipped the
balance, where the weed<BR>densities were able to use allelopathic chemicals
to suppress the<BR>germination of the dormant native seeds in the
soil.<BR><BR>See Journal of Chemical Ecology, especially Dr. Liu's 1994 and
1995 papers<BR>on a method to study plant-produced allelopathic
chemicals as an<BR>independent plant suppression system, separate from
competition for water,<BR>nutrients, sunlight, etc..<BR><BR>Where the concern
should be focused, instead of the weed seed bank, is<BR>managing and
resurrecting the native seeds in the soil seedbank, and once<BR>you cross a
percentage native cover threshold, the natives will start<BR>permanently
suppressing the weeds still viable in the soil.<BR><BR>Those weed seeds will
remain alive underneath the natives for a long, long<BR>time, but once you get
the right densities or the right local natives in<BR>place, the natives will
suppress the weed seeds from every germinating<BR>again, the weed seeds will
eventually die in the soil. Weeds Rest
in<BR>Peace.<BR><BR>=================<BR><BR>Wayne wrote:<BR><BR>Then there's
the issue of the thatch/chaff, post-mowing regrowth, and<BR>other specifics
that raise questions.<BR><BR>Reply: Thatch is not a problem. Fortunately
most of the weeds that cover<BR>California are annuals, but for the perennials
that might regrow, is<BR>where a little brushing of the cut surfaces
with Roundup might be<BR>necessary, like Pampas grass, Harding grass,
etc.<BR><BR>=================<BR><BR>Wayne wrote:<BR><BR>Not only that, but
the vital importance that such treated sites must<BR>self-sustain rather than
be continuously treated for eternity.<BR><BR>Reply: That is why for the
Performance Standards that I am recommending<BR>for restoration of California
perennial native grassland habitats, on my<BR>web page at
http://www.ecoseeds.com/standards.html is that you need to<BR>make the
conversion from exotic cover, back to at least 95% native cover,<BR>within 90
days or less, with no future maintenance.<BR><BR>If you have to weed after the
90th day, you need to do your small scale<BR>test plots over, until you get
the right native cover that stops the weeds<BR>cold. It is like a poker
game, you have to lay down your Royal Flush of<BR>local natives, to beat the
local weeds. You do not want to have to keep<BR>playing hand after hand
of weeding-poker to eternity.<BR><BR>The only maintenance that might have to
be done after the 90th day, is to<BR>add more local native species to increase
the diversity, and to fill in<BR>gaps where native plant understory families
have been catastrophically<BR>exterminated, like California and the
West.<BR><BR>Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650)
325-7333<BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>PCA's
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