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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Speaking as another layperson:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m not convinced 100% restoration is possible in some
ecosystems where critical inputs like fire and bison have been eliminated from
the system. If returned they are “managed” or “controlled”.
I also wonder if some of these systems aren’t scale dependent for their
resilience. Small, fragmented grasslands are easily overrun from the edges.
Some of the weeds I’m dealing with on a mixed grass prairie are native
trees and shrubs: plums and cedars. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org
[mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Anita
Bower<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 14, 2009 7:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [APWG] Fw: Ecosystem restoration and alien species eradication
Re: Performance standards to get weed-free and 100% native<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Caveat:
I write as a layperson/amateur in the field of restoration. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
A well-coordinated erradication and restoration seems ideal. However,
some of us may happen to own a few acres (15 in my case) and want to
increase natives and decrease aliens, but do not have the interest, resources,
time, energy, knowledge to completely restore the property. I am
impressed with what you are doing, but, do not intend to do the same. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>In addition
to the limitations expressed above. eradication of aliens is almost impossible
here in southeast Pennsylvania. Vines, such as japanese honeysuckle and
mile-a-minute are very difficult to erradicate, as are multiflora rose and
autumn olive. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>And, if
eradicated, they come back, brought in on the wind or wing from neighboring
properties.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Anita Bower<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>West
Nottingham, PA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>-----
Forwarded Message ----<br>
<b>From:</b> Wayne Tyson <landrest@cox.net><br>
<b>To:</b> apwg@lists.plantconservation.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 14, 2009 1:45:41 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [APWG] Ecosystem restoration and alien species eradication Re:
Performance standards to get weed-free and 100% native<br>
</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>
Craig and all:<br>
<br>
It appears that other subscribers aren't interested in this topic, but I think
we should continue it anyway, in the hopes that a few will get interested, or
that it will stimulate "lurkers" to think about it. While I'm greatly
looking forward to a possible visit to your project and discussing the
particulars with you in depth, I suggest that we owe it to the subscribers of
this list to iron out the issues that each of us has raised one at a time. I'll
be interested in your ideas about this and those of any who care to join in.<br>
<br>
Let's again revisit the issue of the importance of well-coordinated restoration
with eradication programs. You and I agree on this, I believe, but perhaps
there are others on the list who think that restoration is unnecessary or
irrelevant.<br>
<br>
I hope that all who may not agree will post their ideas on this particular
subject and that the discussion sticks to this one subject before moving on to
digressions. I am very interested in where subscribers to this list stand on
this subject. The only way I know to interpret their silence is to presume that
they agree and see no need for discussion or that they don't want to discuss it
for other reasons.<br>
<br>
WT<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Dremann - Redwood City Seed
Company" <<a href="mailto:Craig@astreet.com">Craig@astreet.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</a>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:23 PM<br>
Subject: [APWG] Performance standards to get weed-free and 100% native<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Wayne and All,<br>
<br>
I want to start my reply, to wax poetically about how nice walking through<br>
a restored, a weed-free North American native ecosystem can be.<br>
<br>
It is like visiting the Promised Land, a fairy tale land that people talk<br>
about at annual wildland weed meetings--what would an area look like, that<br>
they have been weeding for years or decades, if it was not only weed free,<br>
but was 100% covered with the original pre-Columbian native ecosystem<br>
understory?<br>
<br>
The Shaw property is like a flawless 74-acre diamond, currently set in an<br>
unending ocean of almost a 100% solid exotic understory of over 1,000<br>
species of weeds, going 250 miles to the North, 200 miles to the East and<br>
600 miles to the South, to the Mexican border.<br>
<br>
===============<br>
<br>
Wayne wrote:<br>
Mowing before seed-set is a reasonably good practice in some contexts, it<br>
may not always be practical (e.g., 2:1 slopes, etc.).<br>
<br>
Reply: 99% of lower elevation California is gentle slopes to fairly flat,<br>
so the level to gently sloping wildlands should be converted first, while<br>
there are still viable native seeds in the soil seedbank.<br>
<br>
If the native seeds in the soil seed bank are already 35-100 years old, my<br>
big concern is we will not get started in this conversion back to 100%<br>
native cover process, in time to take advantage of the viable native seeds<br>
that are lying dormant underneath the exotics, before they lose their<br>
viability.<br>
<br>
The clock is ticking for these native seeds lying dormant in the soil<br>
seedbanks, waiting for us to pay attention to them within our and their<br>
lifetimes, otherwise their lives will be lost forever.<br>
<br>
===============<br>
<br>
Wayne wrote: Once a site has been dominated by weeds for a year or two,<br>
not to mention decades or centuries, there is a considerable buildup of<br>
dormant seeds in the soil's seed bank. Mowing can't get those, nor can it<br>
get all of the standing crop.<br>
<br>
Reply: Mowing absolutely must to get the standing crop of weed seeds<br>
before they ripen, for that year, and contrary to popular belief, you do<br>
not have to be concerned about the dormant weed seeds in the soil.<br>
<br>
What has been happening over the last decades or hundred years, is that<br>
the percentage cover of the weeds tipped the balance, where the weed<br>
densities were able to use allelopathic chemicals to suppress the<br>
germination of the dormant native seeds in the soil.<br>
<br>
See Journal of Chemical Ecology, especially Dr. Liu's 1994 and 1995 papers<br>
on a method to study plant-produced allelopathic chemicals as an<br>
independent plant suppression system, separate from competition for water,<br>
nutrients, sunlight, etc..<br>
<br>
Where the concern should be focused, instead of the weed seed bank, is<br>
managing and resurrecting the native seeds in the soil seedbank, and once<br>
you cross a percentage native cover threshold, the natives will start<br>
permanently suppressing the weeds still viable in the soil.<br>
<br>
Those weed seeds will remain alive underneath the natives for a long, long<br>
time, but once you get the right densities or the right local natives in<br>
place, the natives will suppress the weed seeds from every germinating<br>
again, the weed seeds will eventually die in the soil. Weeds Rest in<br>
Peace.<br>
<br>
=================<br>
<br>
Wayne wrote:<br>
<br>
Then there's the issue of the thatch/chaff, post-mowing regrowth, and<br>
other specifics that raise questions.<br>
<br>
Reply: Thatch is not a problem. Fortunately most of the weeds that cover<br>
California are annuals, but for the perennials that might regrow, is<br>
where a little brushing of the cut surfaces with Roundup might be<br>
necessary, like Pampas grass, Harding grass, etc.<br>
<br>
=================<br>
<br>
Wayne wrote:<br>
<br>
Not only that, but the vital importance that such treated sites must<br>
self-sustain rather than be continuously treated for eternity.<br>
<br>
Reply: That is why for the Performance Standards that I am recommending<br>
for restoration of California perennial native grassland habitats, on my<br>
web page at http://www.ecoseeds.com/standards.html is that you need to<br>
make the conversion from exotic cover, back to at least 95% native cover,<br>
within 90 days or less, with no future maintenance.<br>
<br>
If you have to weed after the 90th day, you need to do your small scale<br>
test plots over, until you get the right native cover that stops the weeds<br>
cold. It is like a poker game, you have to lay down your Royal Flush of<br>
local natives, to beat the local weeds. You do not want to have to keep<br>
playing hand after hand of weeding-poker to eternity.<br>
<br>
The only maintenance that might have to be done after the 90th day, is to<br>
add more local native species to increase the diversity, and to fill in<br>
gaps where native plant understory families have been catastrophically<br>
exterminated, like California and the West.<br>
<br>
Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650) 325-7333<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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http://lists.plantconservation.org/mailman/listinfo/apwg_lists.plantconservation.org<br>
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of the individual posting the message.<br>
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