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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Karen, hang in there and keep your finger in the
dike. You have a good idea, so it is "doomed" to "failure." That's what it has
been like to be on the cutting edge of anything, and while it is frustrating,
the only way to handle it is to have patience and to never give up. Having tried
and failed for years in a larger context to foster the understanding of
ecosystems (insofar as I may "understand" them), I suspect that your "tiny
municipality" may be the kind of place where major advances are feasible. The
good intentions are not only pavement to Hell, they are also the springboard to
quantum leaps. It's a mixed bag, and one must be satisfied with incremental
success. The best thing about "tiny" municipalities is that everybody knows
everybody--that should keep the rage factor down and the cooperative factor up.
(No, I don't expect Pollyanna to be spreading daisies before anyone's feet.) On
the larger scale, one must tread with caution, but paying off and trading off
may turn out to be better than hoping for the pristine and having to settle for
even less. This is a hard thing to predict, and requires the "gathering" of
intelligence data, which will require the aid of those who are no bored to tears
by gathering it while others are thus freed to work on the technical details.
Beware of borderline personalities and fifth-columnists. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Grace, sorry that y'all got flim-flammed this time,
but don't let them take any more soil from anywhere anymore. In fact, if you can
get some of it back before it dies and replace it (incorporate it into the
remaining sterile subsoil) in even a thin layer, that can help. Wanting that,
you can start the arduous process of rebuilding new topsoil. It may take a long
time, starting with strange methods and indigenous (rarely, but sometimes it may
be necessary to use exotic plants that are STERILE so they can't
reproduce--either sexually or asexually) plants that can tolerate existing
conditions and act as transitional habitat. It's a big job, but it can be done
with surprisingly little money and effort. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=growingwild@optonline.net
href="mailto:growingwild@optonline.net">Karen Blumer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pembrokes@ne.rr.com
href="mailto:pembrokes@ne.rr.com">gg lilly</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=apwg@lists.plantconservation.org
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 14, 2009 11:50
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APWG] Ecosystem restoration
and alien species eradication Re:Performance standards to get weed-free and
100% native</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Grace Lilly's note raises two issues for me. Certainly, as a
professional ecologist whose specialty is restoration of native habitats to
local genotype -- no bringing in any non-site plants, propagules, etc. --
restoration is one. I need to catch up on some of the back APWG correspondence
however, so that topic for another day.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The other is how these types of decisions get made. I live in a small
Village on Long Island, NY, perhaps like Swanzey -- strong on good intentions
toward the environment (although with the report below, not sure that applies
there) but weak, mercilessly weak, on ecosystem wisdom or ecological
knowledge. I would be interested to hear from anyone from a small or large
municipality that has successfully managed (or even tried and
failed) to incorporate an ecologist or small panel of
ecological/biological/(maybe even horticultural -- although that is a
different mindset) panel of knowledgeable people into their decision making
process. It might serve as a good model as my tiny municipality moves toward
revamping their code.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am also involved as a consultant in a much larger regional area of Long
Island about to formulate some innovative and radical approaches to land-use
policy and design, so any models would be welcome. I personally agree with R.
Dasmann, that we are already engaged in WW III, the war against the earth,
and, unfortunately, we are winning. All the more reason to offer assistance
where we can.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Many thanks,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 18px 'Lucida Handwriting'; COLOR: rgb(42,127,34)">Karen
Blumer</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">Karen Blumer</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">Ecologist</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">Ecosystem Based Management
Projects</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">15 Dickerson Drive</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">Shoreham, NY 11786</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">631-821-3337</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica">Fax 631-849-3118</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica"><A
href="mailto:growingwild@optonline.net">growingwild@optonline.net</A></DIV>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica"><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 14, 2009, at 1:55 PM, gg lilly wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>Guess I'm one of the "lurkers."<BR><BR>I've been following
this conversation because in 2006, the board of<BR>selectmen in Swanzey, NH,
sold the topsoil of 5 conservation acres running<BR>beside a river to a
builder. Part of the land had been a gravel pit 30 years<BR>ago; pioneer
trees like pine and gray birch were repopulating the land.<BR>Invasive
glossy buckthorn and Tartarian honeysuckle were growing along the<BR>river.
<BR><BR>In return for the topsoil, the town received 4 adjacent acres with
a<BR>conservation easement; the topsoil was removed from that land too. The
land<BR>would be storm mitigation for the builder.<BR><BR>The second part of
the contract was the builder would build a dirt road onto<BR>the property
with a turnaround and parking lot so that people could put<BR>their canoes
or kayaks into the river.<BR><BR>Finally, the builder seeded the gravel with
an assortment of plants; most of<BR>what is growing is clover.<BR><BR>Of
course, with no topsoil, Japanese knotweed has established on the
dry<BR>sunny areas; purple loosestrife is growing in the mitigation area
and<BR>culverts.<BR><BR>The Conservation Commission is going to spray
Round-up on the knotweed; they<BR>haven't noticed the loosestrife. However,
I know enough about knotweed to<BR>know that won't work. <BR><BR>And that is
why I am following the conversation.<BR><BR>Grace Lilly (another
amateur)<BR>Swanzey, NH<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR>[<A
href="mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org">mailto:apwg-bounces@lists.plantconservation.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson<BR>Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:46 AM<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A><BR>Subject:
[APWG] Ecosystem restoration and alien species eradication<BR>Re:Performance
standards to get weed-free and 100% native<BR><BR>Craig and all:<BR><BR>It
appears that other subscribers aren't interested in this topic, but I
<BR>think we should continue it anyway, in the hopes that a few will get
<BR>interested, or that it will stimulate "lurkers" to think about it. While
I'm<BR><BR>greatly looking forward to a possible visit to your project and
discussing <BR>the particulars with you in depth, I suggest that we owe it
to the <BR>subscribers of this list to iron out the issues that each of us
has raised <BR>one at a time. I'll be interested in your ideas about this
and those of any <BR>who care to join in.<BR><BR>Let's again revisit the
issue of the importance of well-coordinated <BR>restoration with eradication
programs. You and I agree on this, I believe, <BR>but perhaps there are
others on the list who think that restoration is <BR>unnecessary or
irrelevant.<BR><BR>I hope that all who may not agree will post their ideas
on this particular <BR>subject and that the discussion sticks to this one
subject before moving on <BR>to digressions. I am very interested in where
subscribers to this list stand<BR><BR>on this subject. The only way I know
to interpret their silence is to <BR>presume that they agree and see no need
for discussion or that they don't <BR>want to discuss it for other
reasons.<BR><BR>WT<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Craig
Dremann - Redwood City Seed Company" <<A
href="mailto:Craig@astreet.com">Craig@astreet.com</A>><BR>To: <<A
href="mailto:apwg@lists.plantconservation.org">apwg@lists.plantconservation.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:23 PM<BR>Subject: [APWG] Performance standards
to get weed-free and 100% native<BR><BR><BR>Dear Wayne and All,<BR><BR>I
want to start my reply, to wax poetically about how nice walking
through<BR>a restored, a weed-free North American native ecosystem can
be.<BR><BR>It is like visiting the Promised Land, a fairy tale land that
people talk<BR>about at annual wildland weed meetings--what would an area
look like, that<BR>they have been weeding for years or decades, if it was
not only weed free,<BR>but was 100% covered with the original pre-Columbian
native ecosystem<BR>understory?<BR><BR>The Shaw property is like a flawless
74-acre diamond, currently set in an<BR>unending ocean of almost a 100%
solid exotic understory of over 1,000<BR>species of weeds, going 250 miles
to the North, 200 miles to the East and<BR>600 miles to the South, to the
Mexican border.<BR><BR>===============<BR><BR>Wayne wrote:<BR>Mowing before
seed-set is a reasonably good practice in some contexts, it<BR>may not
always be practical (e.g., 2:1 slopes, etc.).<BR><BR>Reply: 99% of
lower elevation California is gentle slopes to fairly flat,<BR>so the level
to gently sloping wildlands should be converted first, while<BR>there are
still viable native seeds in the soil seedbank.<BR><BR>If the native seeds
in the soil seed bank are already 35-100 years old, my<BR>big concern is we
will not get started in this conversion back to 100%<BR>native cover
process, in time to take advantage of the viable native seeds<BR>that are
lying dormant underneath the exotics, before they lose
their<BR>viability.<BR><BR>The clock is ticking for these native seeds lying
dormant in the soil<BR>seedbanks, waiting for us to pay attention to them
within our and their<BR>lifetimes, otherwise their lives will be lost
forever.<BR><BR>===============<BR><BR>Wayne wrote: Once a site has
been dominated by weeds for a year or two,<BR>not to mention decades or
centuries, there is a considerable buildup of<BR>dormant seeds in the soil's
seed bank. Mowing can't get those, nor can it<BR>get all of the standing
crop.<BR><BR>Reply: Mowing absolutely must to get the standing crop of
weed seeds<BR>before they ripen, for that year, and contrary to popular
belief, you do<BR>not have to be concerned about the dormant weed seeds in
the soil.<BR><BR>What has been happening over the last decades or hundred
years, is that<BR>the percentage cover of the weeds tipped the balance,
where the weed<BR>densities were able to use allelopathic chemicals to
suppress the<BR>germination of the dormant native seeds in the
soil.<BR><BR>See Journal of Chemical Ecology, especially Dr. Liu's 1994 and
1995 papers<BR>on a method to study plant-produced allelopathic chemicals
as an<BR>independent plant suppression system, separate from
competition for water,<BR>nutrients, sunlight, etc..<BR><BR>Where the
concern should be focused, instead of the weed seed bank, is<BR>managing and
resurrecting the native seeds in the soil seedbank, and once<BR>you cross a
percentage native cover threshold, the natives will start<BR>permanently
suppressing the weeds still viable in the soil.<BR><BR>Those weed seeds will
remain alive underneath the natives for a long, long<BR>time, but once you
get the right densities or the right local natives in<BR>place, the natives
will suppress the weed seeds from every germinating<BR>again, the weed seeds
will eventually die in the soil. Weeds Rest
in<BR>Peace.<BR><BR>=================<BR><BR>Wayne wrote:<BR><BR>Then
there's the issue of the thatch/chaff, post-mowing regrowth, and<BR>other
specifics that raise questions.<BR><BR>Reply: Thatch is not a problem.
Fortunately most of the weeds that cover<BR>California are annuals, but for
the perennials that might regrow, is<BR>where a little brushing of the
cut surfaces with Roundup might be<BR>necessary, like Pampas grass, Harding
grass, etc.<BR><BR>=================<BR><BR>Wayne wrote:<BR><BR>Not only
that, but the vital importance that such treated sites must<BR>self-sustain
rather than be continuously treated for eternity.<BR><BR>Reply: That is why
for the Performance Standards that I am recommending<BR>for restoration of
California perennial native grassland habitats, on my<BR>web page at <A
href="http://www.ecoseeds.com/standards.html">http://www.ecoseeds.com/standards.html</A>
is that you need to<BR>make the conversion from exotic cover, back to at
least 95% native cover,<BR>within 90 days or less, with no future
maintenance.<BR><BR>If you have to weed after the 90th day, you need to do
your small scale<BR>test plots over, until you get the right native cover
that stops the weeds<BR>cold. It is like a poker game, you have to lay
down your Royal Flush of<BR>local natives, to beat the local weeds.
You do not want to have to keep<BR>playing hand after hand of
weeding-poker to eternity.<BR><BR>The only maintenance that might have to be
done after the 90th day, is to<BR>add more local native species to increase
the diversity, and to fill in<BR>gaps where native plant understory families
have been catastrophically<BR>exterminated, like California and the
West.<BR><BR>Sincerely, Craig Dremann (650)
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