[APWG] Re: [ma-eppc] Fw: frogs & roundup

Wed Apr 6 11:23:19 CDT 2005

Thank you for the clarification on Rodeo.  Since this is the glyphosate formulation to be used in aquatic situations, I had hoped that it did not have the surfactant that Round Up does.  

Does anyone know if anyone has done studies with Rodeo similar to this study with Round Up?

Thanks,
David

David Wilderman
Natural Areas Ecologist
Washington Department of Natural Resources
(509) 925-8510
david.wilderman at wadnr.gov
http://www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/fr/nhp/nap/wanap.html
http://www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/fr/nhp/wanhp.html

"Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light." - Theodore Roethke

>>> "Art Gover" <aeg2 at psu.edu> 4/6/2005 6:59:36 AM >>>
Hi, All.

A few things regarding this current thread:

 I plan on getting the full article today if I can.  The information in the
abstract and the press piece do not provide enough information to know what the
researcher actually did, or what glyphosate source he used.  Drawing
conclusions and contemplating changes in vegetation management practices based
on the information available in the abstract would not be prudent.

The product 'Roundup' (now Roundup Classic, as well as many of the generics)
contained ethoxylated tallowamine as a surfactant, and the label recommended
additional surfactant for most foliar applications.

'Roundup Pro' contains polyethoxylated tallowamine.  It makes up 14 percent of
the formulated product and no additional surfactant is to be added.

Rodeo and its MANY equals are surfactant free.  Except for the product
'Glyphomate 41' (mfg. PBI-Gordon), all aquatic-labeled formulations of
glyphosate are surfactant-free (to my knowledge).

Be well.

Art Gover

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:22:29 +0000, Bruce Barbour wrote:

> 
> Interesting article but does anyone know if Rodeo, which is the aquatic 
> formulation of glyphosate, and the only one that can legally be used in 
> aquatic settings, has the same sufactant?
>                                                                          
>                   Bruce
> 
>  ===================================================
>  Bruce Barbour                             Voice:973-285-8307
>  Environmental Program Leader              Fax: 973-605-8195
>  Rutgers Cooperative Extension             Mobile: 908-309-7660
>  RCE of Morris County
>  PO Box 900 - Court House
>  Morristown, N.J. 07963-0900   Internet: Barbour at Aesop.Rutgers.Edu 
>  =====================================================
> 
> 
> 
> Jil_Swearingen at nps.gov wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >Please see article below about the impacts of the surfactant
> >"polyethoxylated tallowamine" on amphibians. The surfactant is an
> >ingredient in Roundup. Glyophosate was not responsible for the frog kills.
> >
> >Thank you,
> >
> >Jil
> >
> >----- Forwarded by Jil Swearingen/NCR/NPS on 04/05/2005 01:35 PM -----
> >                                                                             

> >                      Bruce Badzik                                           

> >                                               To:                           

> >                      04/04/2005 03:11         cc:                           

> >                      PM PDT                   Subject:  Fw: frogs & roundup 

> >                                                                             

> >
> >
> >
> >In case you have not seen this yet. It is important to note that at the
> >bottom of the article, it notes that it is not glyphosate that causes the
> >problem, but the surfactant. This is something that is not new news,
> >contrary to the last line of the article. That is why there is Aqua Master
> >(formerly Rodeo), it is Roundup without the surfactant. The use of Roundup
> >in a manner such as done in this study would be a violation of the law.
> >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Roundup® highly lethal to amphibians, finds University of Pittsburgh
> > researcher
> >
> > PITTSBURGH--The herbicide Roundup® is widely used to eradicate weeds. But
> > a study published today by a University of Pittsburgh researcher finds
> > that the chemical may be eradicating much more than that.
> >
> > Pitt assistant professor of biology Rick Relyea found that Roundup®, the
> > second most commonly applied herbicide in the United States, is "extremely
> > lethal" to amphibians. This field experiment is one of the most extensive
> > studies on the effects of pesticides on nontarget organisms in a natural
> > setting, and the results may provide a key link to global amphibian
> > declines.
> >
> > In a paper titled "The Impact of Insecticides and Herbicides on the
> > Biodiversity and Productivity of Aquatic Communities," published in the
> > journal Ecological Applications, Relyea examined how a pond's entire
> > community--25 species, including crustaceans, insects, snails, and
> > tadpoles--responded to the addition of the manufacturers' recommended
> > doses of two insecticides--Sevin® (carbaryl) and malathion--and two
> > herbicides--Roundup® (glyphosate) and 2,4-D.
> >
> > Relyea found that Roundup® caused a 70 percent decline in amphibian
> > biodiversity and an 86 percent decline in the total mass of tadpoles.
> > Leopard frog tadpoles and gray tree frog tadpoles were completely
> > eliminated and wood frog tadpoles
> > and toad tadpoles were nearly eliminated. One species of frog, spring
> > peepers, was unaffected.
> >
> > "The most shocking insight coming out of this was that Roundup®, something
> > designed to kill plants, was extremely lethal to amphibians," said Relyea,
> > who conducted the research at Pitt's Pymatuning Laboratory of Ecology.. "We
> > added
> > Roundup®, and the next day we looked in the tanks and there were dead
> > tadpoles all over the bottom."
> >
> > Relyea initially conducted the experiment to see whether the Roundup®
> > would have an indirect effect on the frogs by killing their food source,
> > the algae. However, he found that Roundup®, although an herbicide,
> > actually increased the amount of algae in the pond because it killed most
> > of the frogs.
> >
> > "It's like killing all the cows in a field and seeing that the field has
> > more grass in it--not because you made the grass grow better, but
> > because you killed everything that eats grass," he said.
> >
> > Previous research had found that the lethal ingredient in Roundup® was not
> > the herbicide itself, glyphosate, but rather the surfactant, or detergent,
> > that allows the herbicide to penetrate the waxy surfaces of plants. In
> > Roundup®, that surfactant is a chemical called polyethoxylated
> > tallowamine. Other herbicides have less dangerous surfactants: For
> > example, Relyea's study found that 2,4-D had no effect on tadpoles.
> >
> > "We've repeated the experiment, so we're confident that this is, in fact,
> > a repeatable result that we see," said Relyea. "It's fair to say that
> > nobody would have guessed Roundup® was going to be so lethal to
> > amphibians."
> >
> > Abstract:
> >
http://www.esajournals.org/esaonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=1051-0761&volume=15&issue=2&page=618 
> > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-04/uopm-rhl040105.php 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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PENNDOT Roadside Vegetation Management Project
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The Pennsylvania State University
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